Didn't see that one coming at all.

I'm sure it's not any more of an isolated event then any other "isolated" events that occur in America. You know, isolated rape, murder, and assault all over the country.

I'm not pro-Bush but your consistent anti-Bush postings are getting old.

I think those soldiers are the scape-goats. Who knows how high up the orders came from to "soften" the prisoners before they were to be interrogated by Military Inteligence, CIA, etc. I guarantee you there will be none of the actual interogators brought up for a court martial. The little guy will take the fall. Dishonorable discharge for doing what your superiors tell you to do.

He doesn't even mention Bush.

syzygy's posting that all go along this line:
"WMD found in astonishing numbers [in the U.S.]"
"U.S. unloading WMD's in Iraq"
"Bush seeking to renew Patriot Act" - and I know syzygy's position on this.

Additionally, among his previous submissions under his previous name, one deals with the U.S. execution of Afghani citizens with a gunship (which turned out to be completely wrong).

Although I do have a history of "interesting" submissions, even I have to admit calling these particular submissions "provacative" would do injustice to certain sentiments and opinions which would be required to make such allegations.

POLY-SCI NERD!!!!!! ;)

First off, I don't hate Bush, I just disagree with some of his policies. Now I'll admit that a lot of my news submissions have put the Bush administration in a negative light, but there is nothing stopping you from submitting positive articles about the Bush administration.

If you have read my posts you will see that I don't take an adamant stance, I just say my opinion. I'm not one to call others into an argument or troll so I don't see why I'm being attacked by you.

As for judging me by my behavior from a while ago, please don't. I like to think that I have matured since then. Previously I have been decidedly 'Left' but now I don't stick with one side, I judge by the policies rather than the Party Name.

I'm sorry if my news submissions have offend you, I'll tone it down when it comes to headlines, but if George W. Bush has done some good things [which I'm sure he has] please feel free to submit them. I don't force my opinions on anyone, please don't take it as such.

Quite frankly the officers and non-coms in chargeof this mess should all spend some time in prison for this.

There are rules in the military, one of the most important ones says you do not have to do anything unlawful. You dont have to follow an unlawful order, you are not expected to follow such an order and you had better not follow such an order expecting to be let off for "following orders".

The ruthless beating and torturing of a prisoner is so obviously in this category I find it hard to fathom how it actually happened. I don't blame Bush, or Rumsfield for the act, I blame the commanders on the ground there. Yes I think the President and his staff have a responsibility to act, and perhaps it will cost them all (they are the proverbials Captains of the Ship) - that is neither here nor there. Bringng to justice those persons on the ground there who did this, those who gave the orders and those who looked blindly on, that should be the first and foremost responsibility we have.

This single act potentially negates every bit of good we have accomplished there.

"but there is nothing stopping you from submitting positive articles about the Bush administration. "

Nice absurd argument just to avoid the point. That point is, the Bush bashing is getting tiresome. Sure everyone could go and make a MOVIE too but what's the point? To be an assclown like the original poster/movie maker/asshat by posting the inflamitory?


"I'm not one to call others into an argument or troll so I don't see why I'm being attacked by you. "


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA. Thanks, I needed that laugh.

"As for judging me by my behavior from a while ago, please don't."

Regardless you're falling right back into the same behavior. You are still the same little kid trying to play in a gown-up arena.

"I don't force my opinions on anyone, please don't take it as such."

No one is saying you have, only that you KEEP POSTING THEM AND IT'S GETTING OLD. Got it yet?

Same old leppertitty, new name.

"Dishonorable discharge for doing what your superiors tell you to do."

Well if that is the case the little guy won't be the only one to fall. Anyone following or giving an unlawful order will be held accountable. Also they will have to determine that this was in fact unlawful. Humiliating people isn't necessarily against the law... (for civs) but we need to look at the specifics regarding what is and isn't specifically lawful for a soldier.

Shit CAN roll uphill in the military. This could just end up in an administrative discharge. Dishonorable ones would be fought and higher ranking officers could be slapped for it and they don't want to do that.

Either way it would be nice if they made this a public courtmarshal hearing :D

First of all, my arguement has nothing to do with the Bush Administration.

Secondly, I don't like the Bush Administration.

Now continuing.

While your rhetoric may have matured - and it has - your message has not. The posts have consistently taken a stance contrary to the U.S. on shaky grounds provided by any third-rate news service with an agenda to promote.

Want proof? The link alleging the United States imported weapons of mass destruction into Iraq is from the largest propoganda organ - the Tehran Times - of the one of the largest terrorist-financing countries in the world - Iran. Well, gee whiz, I wonder if taking talking points from a state-owned newspaper of one of the world's largest sponsors of terrorism is disengenuous. :rolleyes:

Yes, you can post whatever you want; yes, you can read whatever you want; yes, you can argue whatever you want. So, I'm arguing this: the links you have shown take a consistently and unfairly negative tone regarding the U.S.. In and of itself, this is not bad. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. But linking to various left-wing sites or sites promoted by dictatorial regimes which may falsely distort news to satisfy personal opinion is not prejudiced against the U.S.; it is prejudiced against fact.

Agreed. If they were told to do it by MI or CIA it's not their fault they aren't trained to torture correctly, but they are fools for following such orders.

You know full well that they had an obligation and duty to disobey an illegal order and report illegal activities. From what I've read thus far, they were told to "soften them up" before interrogation. I've also read a report that the soldiers involved were basically competing with each other to see who could come up with the nastiest pictures.

MP or not, EVERYONE in the Army (including the Reserves and National Guard) gets training on the rights of POW's. The whole "we weren't trained / we didn't know better" excuse is pure bullshit.

I've no sympathy for those directly involved, regardless of who ordered (either directly or indirectly) them to behave the way they did. Everyone who took part and who knew (or should have known) what was happening should be punished severely. The General whos command the prison fell under has been relieved of duty, which was the correct thing to do. I doubt she actually ordered the abuse, but she either knew about it or should have known what was going on and therefore failed her duty miserably.

I don't either they are sick, ignorant and a disgrace to the United Military Services. They are an embarrassment. My husband is an intelligent man who wears that uniform they have no business going around and being all stupid in it.

It is their fault. The very first lesson you learn in Military service is you don't follow unlawful orders. That comes before getting dogged out by the drill instructors in whatever basic training program you go through. Granted the average civilian may not know specifically what soldiers learn, but the any civilian can find out what is taught simply by looking online or asking.

The ordinary soldier is just as much at fault here as anyone. This isn't one person with a high degree of influence imposing his or her will, it is a complete failure at multiple levels of command and control, from the enlisted private in the photos to the generals in charge. I personally feel the sergeants and junior officers here should face jail time, in addition to the field grade officers (majors, colonels and generals etc), but no way should the average soldier here be let off unless there is definititve proof they fought the system when they knew it was wrong. That is the only mitigating factor. As pointed out earlier the commanding general, Janis Karpinsky was relieved of duty, either for knowingly letting this happen or not knowing what was going on in her own command. in either case its gross dereliction of duty.

Unfortunately there are lots of stupid people in the world, and some of them wear our nation's various military uniforms. But last time I checked stupidity wasn't an excuse to break the law.