I disagree with the killing of fetus' for stem cell research. If you're waiting for an arguement you're wasting your time. It's just an opinion of mine.

I actually don't have much of a problem with cloning, but creating human fetuses for the sole purpose of killing them for their stem cells is wrong in my opinion. I understand the potential medical benefit, but where do you draw the line- would it be OK to kill a 10 newborns for their stem cells if it saves a thousand people? How about killing one newborn? How about a fetus one day before it's to be born? A week before it's to be born? A month?

Miscarriges and abortions are- unfortunately- frequent enough occurances that they can get stem cells that way- "growing" them and killing them- it's not right.

Pro-choice... kill a fetus for it's parts. For fuck's sake how is this really any different than someone wanting to sell their own kidneys? (rhetorical)

This is wrong. Period.

Thats just it. Its a great misconception that stem cells are "harvested" from fetuses. The best stem cells come from embryos which are only a few cells large. They are not "killing newborns" to get stem cells, they are implanting the DNA of the patient in an embryo and then deriving the stem cells from that - in this case customised theraputic stem cells will be created which has the potential of creating spare body parts, replacement cells and basically anything in the body and has no risk of rejection due to the exact DNA match.

And lets not think that these embryos are rare and need to be created - millions of embryos slated for destruction lie in suspended animation at fertility clinic. They will eventually be destroyed so why not use them for the betterment of humanity? This research theoretically will end once we can engineer stem cells without the use of embryos.

It is not a fetus - it is an embryo that they are researching on - there is a difference. This research is considered temporary because once all the various stem cell lines are developed, documented and replicable, then embryos for research will not be needed.

There is no argument because a fetus and embryo are 2 different things. Sure if they were killing fetuses there might be a greater controversy but they aren't.

The embryo that they are "killing", isn't even technically alive... Its less alive than the vegetables that go into youre salad.

If youre saying that because it has the potential to grow into a human, thats similar to saying, well i have all this sperm that has the potential to become human. you don't go around impregnating everyone just for the fact that you have that "Potential" inside of you.

I personally am not opposed to stem cell research, however, I think it is foolish for people search for the cure to all disease. Disease, famine, etc. when brought about naturally serves an important biological function namely to keep population at sustainable levels (Earth is already grossly over-populated).
People seem to have this notion that anything and everything must be done to prolong life. My personal outlook is that one should try to live a natural healthy life. I am not talking about some idealistic hippie nonesense, but rather that people should accept the fact that eventually they are going to die whether it be at 40 or 140 (life is the only disease with a 100 per cent fatality rate) and rather than seek to make life as long as possible people should do what they can to make life as productive and enjoyable as possible. I have know people that have lived an exceptionally long time (100+ years) and they were severely physically degenerate and quite woeful since all their friends had died and they really could not do much. Such existence is to me not life but a cruel mockery of life. I person do not mind if I die before I turn 40 (which considering some of the things I have done in my past is not that unlikely) provided I have made the most of the time I have.

So are you against organ donation? I could see why someone would be opposed to stem cell research since it theoretically takes away a potential life. However, why should one be opposed to organ donation if it does not harm the life of the donor and gives another a chance to continue life (at least in general, I can understand people's unwillingness to not be organ donors)? If one uses the argument of the sancity of life to support pro-choice causes but is opposed organ donation (at least in principle, not on a personal level as mentioned above) then that person has commited an act of hypocrisy. If the "life" of the unborn is precious enough to ban abortion, stem cell research, etc. then clearly the life of a living person should be likewise precios and whatever measures are possible should be done to continue it. It is the same hypocrisy that is present when a pro-life supporter approves of the death penalty. You are stating a set of premises for your argument then negating those premises in another argument. It is bad logic. Hold whatever opinions you please just be consistent in your reasoning.

I don't give a fuck what it is. Killing a life for parts is wrong.

There is no difference except how far along it is.

IT IS WRONG.

Go fuck yourself dickhead.

So are you against organ donation?

Did I say I was? I don't see these embryo's being asked if they want to donate. False analogy. However, if you can donate you should be allowed to sell them as well.

However, why should one be opposed to organ donation if it does not harm the life of the donor and gives another a chance to continue life (at least in general, I can understand people's unwillingness to not be organ donors)?

This isn't about someone donating organs. I choose not to be a donor because I like my body parts and I want to take themt o the grave with me. If I could have my family paid for my parts after my death then I'd give them up. However my family would not benefit from my parts so I don't feel it matters whether anyone else could either. My choice.

Why are you bringing in issues like not donating and pro choice pro life etc. into the argument? It has nothing to do with it except the fact that people say killing life for parts would be beneficial.

Pay the people and they would be more likely to help. Don't create life to destroy it for parts.

There is absolutely no hypocrisy involved. If someone is going to die because of an organ issue it is a natural problem. Part of God's plan. Why would it be someone's responsibility to give up an organ for that person's life? Pro life is about not killing life that has been created, it has nothing to do with not letting life happen how it is intended.

It is the same hypocrisy that is present when a pro-life supporter approves of the death penalty.

You obviously don't understand what pro-life means. It is about NOT KILLING a form of life that will eventually be a human being like you and me. A life that doesn't have have the choice in the matter to do or not do something wrong is in a diferent league. Again false analogy so your hypocrisy claim is shit.

You are stating a set of premises for your argument then negating those premises in another argument. It is bad logic. Hold whatever opinions you please just be consistent in your reasoning.

No I'm not. You just don't know how to read. You are a fucking idiot and don't know what logic is. I also submit you don't know what consistent means if you think I'm not being consistent in my opinions.

Asshat.

Dear fuckhead,

Get a clue. You can't compare sperm and eggs with an embryo. an embryo is life. The sperm and egg are by themselves not comparable as potential of an embryo. Period. End of story.

For fuck's sake these AC idiots come out of the woodwork as soon as people mention abortions, embryos, research, cloning, pro life, etc.

You are talking of an egg. An embryo is a living being. A human life form is an embryo from implantation (not artificial) up to 8 weeks. [link]

sometimes, even when you're naturally dying, you may have children who still need to be provided for and so you must live on so that they can be cared for. and so one may choose to fight their disease. and sometimes longer life does make for a more productive and enjoyable life, if enjoyable is sitting around through retirement not having to work anymore.

If I could use medicine so I could live to 60 and NOT be allergic to eggs, chicken, or anything that contains either (can't tell you the last time I enjoyed a pancake) I would.

If I could use medicine so I could live to 60 and not have gout or kidney stones I would.

If I could use medicine so I could live to 60 and not be half blind I would.

"make life as long as possible people should do what they can to make life as productive and enjoyable as possible." - That's exactly what they are doing.

I'm logged in too. That was the second time that happened to me.

I agree Rev.. Killing a human life is wrong. Hoochie, do you think its acceptable to murder a 3 year old, but not acceptable to murder a 30 year old?

Just wondering....

That was a typical response from an uneducated racist loser. Tsk - looks like you could be missing a few stem cells of your own - this research could even benefit you Rev. Think about it for awhile... if your attention span allows.

It is the prefetal product. An embryo is a sperm and egg fused together up to 8 weeks. It is not alive and does not have any of the characteristics of living creatures.

What are you talking about? There can be no comparison between two human beings and a human and an embryo.
Embryos in the world today are already induced with fertility drugs. Once the couple have given birth, those extra embryos are destroyed . If you feel that that is wrong then go protest outside a fertility clinic. If not, then understand that your "killing a life is wrong" suggestion happens everyday and to millions of supposed living embryos.

By the logic of idiots like Rev, every embryo created for fertility treatments should be kept "alive" indefinately or impanted in hundreds of millions of women so that they can potentially grow and develop into humans.

Objection. That's a statement of belief not fact.

If I need a kidney, and I see you standing on the street. And I say, "Hey, I need your kidney." and then procede to yank it out, would you object?

"There can be no comparison between two human beings and a human and an embryo."

Why not, is there a difference? One is, I assume you're talking about gull grown humans, full grown, and one is not. Just because your brain isn't full size doesn't make you less human.

I suppose you think that quadrapeligics deserve to be killed for their working parts too.

If you want to go to the extreme of things then I suppose that you save every drop of semen in your ejaculation because of its potential for life.

The difference is that a human is alive - an embryo is not. You might dismiss that as a "belief" but is a belief that millions of people share.

I suppose you think that contraception is wrong too.. even abortion. Tsk.

Every sperm I have IS alive, but it is NOT a human. The connection between an egg and a sperm cell make it a human being.

I don't think contraception is wrong, but it's plain to see that abortion is.

Your ideas that an embryo isn't life are just that, your ideas. You have no way of proving when life starts, you are wrong.

So you are suggesting that you kill your sperm? They might not be human to you but they are still alive according to you. Isn't that just as bad?

And I suppose you know when life starts? Don't be such a Rev and start with the ''you are wrong" bit. If you have strong beliefs - good for you - I have strong beliefs too but I don't go on telling people that "they are wrong"

PS. If the idea that embryos are not alive was my idea alone, then there would not be such a controversy in the world today.

Later in the future, should cures for various ailments arise due to embryonic stem cell research, I should hope that you not take advantage of these medical advancements because they go against your moral beliefs.

"Miscarriges and abortions are- unfortunately- frequent enough occurances that they can get stem cells that way- "growing" them and killing them- it's not right."

Someone should tell our president that. He's the one who made it illegal to use stem cells from miscarriages and abortions in research, thus making these manufactured embryo's the only source for stem cells.
Maybe taking stem cells from the lesser of 2 evils is still not whats most right, but reality and a perfect world are 2 different things, and one of them doesn't exist. Whats the harm of taking stem cells from abortions and miscarriages? they and their stem cells will exist no matter what.

Lets try to find some facts about the start of human life. does anyone remember being an embryo? How alive you felt in your little embryo lifetime? Before there were brain cells?

plants are living beings too. they don't have brain cells, but neither does an embryo.

That's a rather simple anology

i have very few memories byond the age of about 3, are you telling me I was not alive before that age? The capacity for memory does not define conciousness. Are mentally disabled people not alive then?
I might accept the egg is not human argument, but not on the basis of memory or lack of one.

Well...it boils down to nothing more than a simple yes-it-is/no-it's-not argument of whether or not one believes a certain cluster of cells is a human being or not. I, for one, do not.
Morality is an utterly arbitrary notion, anyhow--just as much a matter of opinion as one's food preferences. You can't expect people to agree about this, especially not if religion comes into play.
Whatever your opinion is of the matter, South Korea will begin to make medicinal technologies that we Americans will simply miss out on if we continue in our current mode of thought.

some people do claim to have memories from the womb, not everybody but some. No one claims to have memories of when they were an embryo, but thats impossible since there are no brain cells with which to have a memory. mentally disabled people still have the capacity for memory, i.e. the brain is there, but are just disabled from utilizing it normally. In these stem-cell-research-wrong-arguments, life at the embryonic stage is being elevated to the point of those who have a brain, when we are still just a mass of undifferentiated cells. at that undifferentiated point we have just as much life in us as a plant.
what does define conciousness, if not memory? what qualities that define conciousness does the embryo have?

Some people have memories of past lives where they married Bill Clinton in his past life. You are a doofus. Some people might have memories from the womb, I highly doubt it, those memories would be "Ohh.. Warm... Gooey." But just because there are a few people who claim they have memories that far back doesn't mean that they do. That was just a retarded post.

Yes you can. Sperm are alive. So are trees. So are cows. I don't think that killing things is wrong. I think killing humans is wrong. Especially when you are making them to be mass-slaughtered for parts.

Yes I do. It's more than I belief. I don't expect you to believe it either. But weren't you the one who stated factually that embryos were humans?

P.S. Yeah I know that, just because there are a lot of stupid people doesn't mean that they're right.

Later in the future, pending research on embryos, I will take advantage of certain medical advancements. I, even now, reap the benefits of things I do not condone. Because I do not condone stem cell research that means I will not take part in it, and I will encourage others not to either. But once the damage is done and there's a medicine that can save a life I will not let the millions of dead die in vain.

You are such a Rev-wannabe with your snide little provocations.
"just because there are a lot of stupid people doesn't mean that they're right."

Yeah - just because there are a lot of blind, idiotic bible thumpers such as yourself doesn't make them right either (and they have been proven wrong on so many issues) :mfinger:

Now that thats out of the way, by your own admission sperm is alive. So you are saying that you mass-slaughter millions of human sperm just for your pleasure while not giving them the chance to develop into human beings.

Embryos are produced by any living creature but that does not make it a living creature. There is an 8 week gap before an embryo becomes a foetus, which, if it has gotten to that point has passed the random selection of embryos in which they either develop or "die".

So you would use medical treatments derived from embryonic stem cell research. What a hypocritic you are. You drag your feet in an inevitable revolution in medicine but will use the results of it when it finally gets there. If you felt so strongly about such an issue you would never use any of the advancements for your own benefit. In fact, you should continue to hold the position you hold today - that embryonic stem cell extraction is wrong and that non "stupid" people should not use the results of them.

mass of undifferentiated cells. at that undifferentiated point we have just as much life in us as a plant.

[link] - granted this is prolife however I don't think they can bias these things that much.

"Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct." - Sounds pretty damn human to me.

Week 7 that does occur. Stem cells are extracted a few minutes after the fusing of the sperm and ova.

That's correct, actually Sperm are not independant organisms. They are H-Cells with a specialized function. An embryo is an independant organism with it's own life!

There are people running around "alive" without brain-cells now. Take you for instance. We don't abort you even thought you made it out of your momma's snatch.

So you are suggesting that you kill your sperm?

Actually your body does that on it's own. Kills it and recycles it into the system.

They might not be human to you but they are still alive according to you. Isn't that just as bad?

Apples and orangutans. They are alive. They themselves are not human life but a part of it. Sperm is a part of a lot of male life. We are cum factories as are many animals.

However a single sperm alone will not grow into a human being. Period. An egg left unfertilized won't turn into a damn chicken. You could set an egg out under heat lamp if you like and see what happens. No jacking off on it now, this is supposed to be scientific.

And I suppose you know when life starts?

I do. Life started when God created it and the systemto develop life. Sperm meets egg. Sperm penetrates... sperm goes for the "gold." Egg is fertilized. Bam. Life from a single piece of life that only had the potential for life... life that has potential that can only be reached through the mating of another basic piece of life to create a whole one.

Don't be such a Rev and start with the ''you are wrong" bit.
But you are wrong.
I have strong beliefs too but I don't go on telling people that "they are wrong"
But they are wrong. ;)

P.S. If the idea that embryos are alive was my idea alone, then there would not be such a controversy in the world today.

P.P.S. You are a fucking schmuck.

Stem cell research will only help me reach hell a lot faster.

It will NOT benefit me. Whatever man can do God can do better.

P.S. Go fuck yourself camelboy.

How about this. We use stem cells from things other than HUMANS?

Better yet strip the genetic code out of anything else but a human and make all the damned embryos you want and add the code you need for the function you are trying to utilize.

Hey problem solved, weu!

Don't you think that if scientists could have used animal embryos they would have? The embryos are different regardless of what genetic material they hold - which is why the gestation period for all creatures is different.

Happens a lot.

Now to address your life changing issues and how science is leading us towards change...


I wonder how people feel towards things more along the lines of bionics. Real, sci-fi types of bionics. Would people rather be killing and harvesting human lives or turning into partial machines to be healthier?

I think nano-tech could go a long way in helping with health in the future and would rather see bionic eyes than killing life to grow new ones.

If they were able to clone your own tissues without harvesting another life to regrow parts than THAT I'm all for.

Regrowing parts and using nanotech to reconnect those parts could lead to better lives for many. They could reconstruct arteries, roto-root them, destroy gall and kidney stones, etc. all without invasive surgeries.

No, I think they are just being lazy and going with what is probably the easiest route. They also don't have the same morals as Christians do in Korea so they likely didn't think twice about using humans for this.

Funny, the way the evolutionists talk, we are all the same. Remove the specifics and create blanks. Or if it isn't so easy with things like pigs how about our supposed relatives the apes?

If they can't do it from apes I'd submit their evolution theory isn't quite as solid as they claim. But I digress.

As for the original question: Answer, succinctly No.

your snide little provocations

Pot calling the kettle black trollboy.

and they have been proven wrong on so many issues

No they haven't. The assholes like yourself just refuse to admit they are wrong and see the facts that are provided. A very trollish trait.

So you are saying that you mass-slaughter millions of human sperm just for your pleasure while not giving them the chance to develop into human beings.

Red herring. You are also assuming that a particular individual is masturbating rather than performing their function of reproduction where only one sperm gets to do a victory lap.

random selection of embryos in which they either develop or "die".

You just admitted that they can "die." If they can "die" then that means they were alive. Thank you for contradicting yourself in such an efficient manner as to make your opposition's points valid thus renderign yours void. To put it in terms you understand, "you're still wrong."

What a hypocritic you are.

For God's sake, just look up the damn word and see if you can comprehend what it means to be a hypocrite. You have no clue what so ever. You are a fucking retard that should have been aborted. either that or your mother should have swallowed you instead of spitting the load into her snatch after sucking your daddy's unwashed dick that he plays with using his left hand.

Fucktard.

Rev, when will you get over your inferiority complex already? You are a boy who never grew up and who thinks the world should serve your uneducated ass.

The word "die" was in quotation marks and was meant just that - to quote somebody - mainly people who think that embryos represent human life. Typically the embryos either develop or they don't. If you could not identify what the quotation marks represented, you are just as stupid as your wife who had to sleep with the border guards to get you back to Washington. You probably forgot to take your meds today again so I can understand your lack of understanding.

Rev, I understand you dislike me for revealing the fact that your father used to abuse your mother and molest your sister, which is why you ended up killing him. It is ok though. You have to accept the past as it is and realise that your lack of education, your life, and your wifes face are part of gods great plan. You see - you are meant to give hope to other losers out there that there can always be someone worse off than they are. You should be happy. It was what god intended. :)

Rev you are just so stupid I'm not even going to reply to your uneducated thoughts. Its a good thing affirmative action prevents you from getting a job you don't deserve - I know I'd hate to see you in any position of authority any day. Oh well - on your gravestone they can write "He came into this world a bastard and left it a janitor". Thats good for something isn't it?

I think you are living proof of a failed abortion attempt.

So many things to respond to here....

You stated earlier that you believe in birth control.... using oral birthcontrol is in effect killing the same embryo's this science uses as for stem cells.

How righteous are you to think that only Christians have morals? Try understanding what you are arguing first, then research the situation. 2/3 of the scientists on the Korean research team were Christians. Righteous or not your statement fails.

If you have a strong moral objection to the destruction to embryo's then you should never attempt to procreate, since 50% of successful fertilizations end in unsuccessful implantation of the embryo to the uterine wall. What does this mean? YOU KILL EMBRYOS TOO!

On your behalf the use of adult stem cells is a promising field with the potential to equal the embryonic stem cells in technologic achievements, unfortunately the research is farther off and there is push for usable therapies.

PS using insults and vulgarity strips power from your arguments

Typical trollish backtracking to run away from an argument. Way to go feltcher.

And you are one to judge this eh? You still have a hole in your head from when the coat-hanger removed your brains. they didn't finish the damn job.

"using oral birthcontrol is in effect killing the same embryo's this science uses as for stem cells. "

Wrong. It makes the chance of life happening very, very, very remote. Birth control doesn't kill life. You may want to read about the medications.

"How righteous are you to think that only Christians have morals?"

Very if only the Christians are getting flak for making the RIGHT decisions.

"Try understanding what you are arguing first, then research the situation. 2/3 of the scientists on the Korean research team were Christians. Righteous or not your statement fails."

I do understand it. Christians don't kill life in the name of "science." The statement stands just fine.

"If you have a strong moral objection to the destruction to embryo's then you should never attempt to procreate, since 50% of successful fertilizations end in unsuccessful implantation of the embryo to the uterine wall. What does this mean? YOU KILL EMBRYOS TOO! "

Hey fucktard, time for a bit of education. When people attempt to procreate they aren't trying to make babies to abort them. Very much a false analogy. you are an asshat. Got it?

"On your behalf the use of adult stem cells is a promising field with the potential to equal the embryonic stem cells in technologic achievements, unfortunately the research is farther off and there is push for usable therapies."

Noting your postscript is it amusing and quite ironic that you would do the very thing you condemn. Guess that means your argument lacks power eh? Go back into your hole trollboy. You are an uneducated cretin and deserve even less respect than what I see fit to dish out to Hoochie.

Simply put. "You're wrong."

"Yeah - just because there are a lot of blind, idiotic bible thumpers such as yourself doesn't make them right either (and they have been proven wrong on so many issues) "

Have you ever proved any "bible thumpers" wrong? I'm a bible thumper and in matters.. especially ones of ethical or moral issues you can't prove them wrong if they're using the truth.

"Now that thats out of the way, by your own admission sperm is alive. So you are saying that you mass-slaughter millions of human sperm just for your pleasure while not giving them the chance to develop into human beings. "

They aren't human. They are human sperm. There's a difference. Sperm are not sentientand cannot be by themselves. Humans are.

"Embryos are produced by any living creature but that does not make it a living creature. There is an 8 week gap before an embryo becomes a foetus, which, if it has gotten to that point has passed the random selection of embryos in which they either develop or "die". "

Rev's right on this one. By your own post you said that embyos can die. And they can. Because they are at the moment of conception alive.

"So you would use medical treatments derived from embryonic stem cell research. What a hypocritic you are. You drag your feet in an inevitable revolution in medicine but will use the results of it when it finally gets there. If you felt so strongly about such an issue you would never use any of the advancements for your own benefit. In fact, you should continue to hold the position you hold today - that embryonic stem cell extraction is wrong and that non "stupid" people should not use the results of them."

That doesn't make me a hypocrit. It might be a little dishonest, but I really don't think you have the right to say anything about that.

I might be happy that my uncle dies and gives me money, but I didn't kill him. Nor would I condone his being killed.

"Typically the embryos either develop or they don't."

Typically humans live or they don't. We call the not living dying.

"You are such a Rev-wannabe with your snide little provocations."

A. I submit that is a snide provocation.
B. I submit that Rev's being more moral than you, so pfft.

Actually we call the not living dead ;)

Hoochie is rather funny. Poor little troll can't hack it so he always falls back on the favorite oldies. I didn't even get past the inferiority part and I already knew what the rest of it was going to be.

Once a fucktard, always a fucktard. He's definately a fucktard but we need our mascot healthy so we won't beat him for being stupid.

Its obvious you choose to ignore the truth because it hurts. Bastard. :)

As I understand it, your father tried to abort you by punching your mother in her abdomen while she was pregnant with you. Unfortunately it didn't work and now you have a back problem and have to take mind-altering drugs to try and forget the abuse.

Coathanger to the brain != understanding.

Proof positive that you are slow witted. I don' think anyone else needs any more proof than your actions and thoughts. Well done.

Your idea of truth is not recognizing the facts when they are being shown to you. Kind of like the fundy islamic terrorists. Their "truth" is the only one even when they are wrong.

I speak only truth and back up what is truth with fact. Your arguments are so full of logic holes it is pathetic. Your only way out is to try one of your many weaseling tactics to change the subject or twist an argument and even then you get closed out.

You are a very sad person. Isn't it time for your Mid-morning cum fest with your daddy?

You unchristian troll. May god rape you with his crucifix gently. :)

Keep on trolling camel feltcher. You know you're wrong and it's all you've got.

I can't believe your father hasn't just killed you and started fucking your dead corpse by now. You are a waste of air.

Not necessarily.

Yes he's a snide little fucker that always has his panties in a twist because he is constantly being told exactly where to go while beingp utin his place with facts.

I'm not quite so moral as to keep my mouth shut and let him wallow in his ignorance. I damn sure go out of my way to make it knows how much of a moron he is just so he cannot claim ignorance.

He's just being wrong and a fucktard without morals regarding life. So clarification was in order :eyemouth:

If he could get away with it, and it paid well, and if he had another dick to fuck him in the ass, he's sell his daddy for body parts. He just likes dick way too much to plan it carefully enough to not get caught and it's easier getting paid by daddy to take it up the ass (which he likes) rather than sell the parts.

"I can't believe your father hasn't just killed you and started fucking your dead corpse by now. You are a waste of air."

Thats not what fathers do. Perhaps if you had one you would know. Or maybe that is the only experience you had with your father. Hate to burst your bubble, but fathers are meant to care for their children, not beat their mothers up and abandon them like yours did. Sorry :(

The whole fact that doctors are trying to play God scares me. They're starting to develop ways of controlling brain functions now. It's very terrifying, the potential of the science in the wrong hands. But back on topic...

Simply put, embryos should not be harvested for stem cells. As everyone has read, at the conjoining of the sperm and egg, it is life. No? You don't agree? Why?

It's not really a live human? How so? I believe that so long as something has a potential to become a human being, it shouldn't be killed. If it were possible to turn rocks into living, breathing, human beings, i would say no more rock crushing. If you were to pick up a rock and break it in half, one would think "I wonder what this rock would have been like as a person." Follow my bizarre analogy?

No brain cells? Not neccessarily meaningful. What about post-death experiences. People who have been clinically dead, no brain activity whatsoever. Yet they still have visions and can recall things around them. Sure they have brain cells, but they weren't being used.

It really isn't that hard. An embryo is human life at it's very earliest stage. it shouldn't be killed.

Not what father's do...

So you are saying your sperm doner isn't your father then? After all, fathers are not supposed to buttfuck their kids either.

Guess you are bursting your own bubble rather than mine. Shame your world is shattering and crashing down around you.

Ok Tek you blew it. How DARE you keep to the topic at hand? It is the unspoken rule here that you threadjack and throw in misinformation whenever possible if you ever post. Bad Tekiran!

"if it were possible to turn rocks into living, breathing, human beings, i would say no more rock crushing."

Everytime you masterbate, God kills a kitten. There is a huge hole in that logic, since technically everytime you go solo, you are killing what could "potentially" be another human life (Course, the church considers that activity a sin as well). Just pointing that out. Please, think of the kittens.

good point. i see the flaw in the analogy. It's true that sperm has potential to become a living person. And so does an egg. But it's not murder everytime some guy masturbates or when a girl has her period. I concede, the rock example was due to a poor thought process. That doesn't change the fact that an embryo is still the first stage of human life and shouldn't be destroyed.

Actually only a few churches consider it a sin.

Theones that do take something in the bible out of context. The reason the bastard got in trouble for masturbating wasn't because of was spilling his seed on the ground but because it defied God. It was the defiance not teh act. He was supposed to deposit his seed in a woman per God's will.

Looking at it from an ethical point of view regarding sin, I believe the church would rather you jerked off than fucked someone out of wedlock.

Yep, killing sperm alone isn't the same as killing an embryo. Potential for live vs. life with potential.