No N words please. Thanks :)

Makes you nervous even having this here doesnt it? :)

That is because there is no such thing as an African American unless you hold citizenship in BOTH countries. You are either African, or American.

Like Cnadian Americans that hold dual citizenship.

Irish American, you hold citizenship in two countries?

Great, where's a good place to stay in Dublin?

Well I wonder how it would work if I applied for the United Negro College fund. I'm not black. Can they deny it to me based on skin color?

Fuck them (all the folks who whine about discrimination yet do it themselves) and their whiny asses.

Hey you said "nervous" bad Surreal!

Ricky said no...er anything but "n" words damnit and he meant it. Now... er At this time, piss off !

All these hyphenated names piss my lilly white ass off. For fuck's sake, I'm Asian-Irish-Scotch-Cherokee-Oglala Sioux-German-Danish-American-and fucking Jewish. For fuck's sake when will it end?

News flash fucktards. You aren't a nationality, you are a fucking human. Try acting like one ya damned dirty mother fucking sons of whores.

Fuck!

That bit of tourette's brought to you by a fucking "tired of stupid people" RJ.

The UNC is a scholarship fund for black people (for which the majority are poor). As I understand it, they hand out grants and bursaries to poor black people, not rich ones. and that is one of the main factors they look for when handling applications.

We already spend the money... it's just that the money goes to ineffectual public schools.

Well I'm a poor white man. I should qualify if I make under a specific amount then.

After all in america discrimination based on COLOR isn't allowed.

OK, so the "N" word is out... how about "coon", "spade" or "porch monkey"? :D

Private discrimination is alive and healthy in many forms, not just racial. The UNC is a private group; they have the right to give out the money however they want.

Once again, this is a statement of fact, not opinion. Not saying I necessarily agree or not.

Could I have a privately funded "United European College Fund" that only provided money to those of European ancestry?

I know what you're saying, but there is a huge double standard.

So groups like Sallie Mae and other companies/trusts that are there to dole out money to poor folks needing help with school costs should be able to arbitrarily say they won't give cash to blacks because they are a private organization as well?

Funny, while I could be wrong but I thought once you started offering money to the general public(granted only the black general public) you weren't exactly a private organization.

Can the KKK start offering scholarships to whites only? They would be considered a private organization no?

Yeah, ditto.

It was the double standard that I was getting at. :/

Pretty sad. It hits the schools and students because of the political agendas of a few who want more power. Yada yada, bitch bitch, moan moan. Yep, that about sums it up :eyemouth:

I always prefered spear chucker but I'm a bit biased towards ancestral weaponry.

To be more precise to exclude blacks you would likely need to make it a united Anglo Saxon Ancestry Fund. There are black europeans after all.

Can the KKK start offering scholarships to whites only? They would be considered a private organization no?

Yes and yes.

Your whining about these examples of discrimination you experience are nothing compared to what minorities face. A minority person would not feel so wounded by these little problems. You can't even handle a little because your personal sense of civil rights was so well protected by growing up white. Affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but these bits of minor reverse discrimination you face are a small price to pay for the betterment of our society. Please, have a little understanding and sensitivity.

Affirmative action doesn't say YOU enslaved anybody, it just recognizes the harships our social structure-created by our histoy-place on minorities. Even though your a recently immigrated irish, you live in the same society whose history made it a nicer place for white people than minorities, to this day. And you reap all the benefits as such. You dont get scholarships and awards because more white people get into school and high-paying jobs on their own, because they aren't phased out by the system. Of course you can point out problems with the ideology of affirmative action, but its a pragmatic step in the right direction. Its not perfect, but niether is our society. Marginalization of minorites is a reality, look at the statistics.
And if you want to go to a white club, there are plenty of districts in the U.S. where the population is 100% white, and they have clubs in them.

Yes, a White College Fund could.

If private golf courses can still ban women; if the private organization of the boy scouts can ban gays and athiests; if this [link] can happen, then I say yes.

ok, thats a better explanation of the popular definition. The 'descended from slaves' part was trying to be sensitive to what having african ancestry in america means, and the consequences our social structure has on it because of the history involved. Which is where the origin of the award mr. richards was competing for eventually came from. It would be better if slavery had no substance.

you must be tired all the time, since you can't get away from yourself.

I like your views and attitude! Please join Kungfoo!

About your link...

You know why that is being done don't you? It is to prove there is a double standard. there will be a shitstorm and the guy is prepared for it.

I think it's great the point he'll be making.

It will be something worth following.

The blacks and other "minorities" will get their panties in a twist and scream discrimination. They'll say it is a violation of civil liberties to refuse the money to the folks who aren't white. They'll win an continue to do the very same thing against the white folks. Discrimination happens every day... the White man is discriminated against daily.

I wonder what percentage of people living in Africa would qualify as 'black'. I mean the whole northern Africa is populated by a variety of people. Somehow I suspect that only the Americans give a shit anyway.

Affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but these bits of minor reverse discrimination you face are a small price to pay for the betterment of our society.

It is not a betterment of our society. Trading one evil for another. Also ever heard two wrongs don't make a right? Affirmative action is WRONG. Discrimination is WRONG. Remove both.

Please, have a little understanding and sensitivity.

Ditto fucktard.

it just recognizes the harships our social structure-created by our histoy-place on minorities.

Recognizes it by reversing the hardships so they are placed on the other party, the other party who is only descended from theo riginal asshats mind you and not directly responsible. Neither are the descendants of those who endured the hardships facing any themselves yet they scream bloody murder about it as if it was going on right now to them.

Yeah, great form of recognition. Basically it is stating that what happened to them was OK. After all, it's ok to turn around and apply the same discrimination to the whites so everything their ancestors fought for was meaningless.

And you reap all the benefits as such. You dont get scholarships and awards because more white people get into school and high-paying jobs on their own, because they aren't phased out by the system.

Benefits, like losing outon a job you are qualified for because they have a quote to meet and fill the position with someone who isn't deserving of the job?

We don't get scholarship awards because the minorities are taking them because they have preference and get first pick. The minorities who you claim don' get the high-paying jobs are the very ones who are undeserving of them and DO get the jobs because of the quotas.

Yeah, great benefits.

Of course you can point out problems with the ideology of affirmative action, but its a pragmatic step in the right direction.

Pragmatic step? So you are ok with shifting one form of slavery and discrimination for another? This pragmatic step is the correct one in your opinion? You are a fucking load of cunt slime. You have no idea what civil liberties are and don't deserve to be in this country or enjoy the benefits of the rights US citizens hold dear. But you are posting as an AC and most likely are a slacking minority and thus defend the broken system. You "deserve" to be here because of something bad that happened to your great great great grand daddy. So you deserve special priveleges and rights and freedoms and jobs that whites don't because you may or may not have an ancestor that had shit happen to them. Hell all because you have a different skin color.

Marginalization of minorites is a reality,

Only because fuckers with no clue bitch and whine about their non-existant oppression. Thus affirmative action was created to give undeserving people jobs and special rights and protections which the average US citizen doesn't get.

Trading one form of racism and discrimination for another is wrong. You are truly ignorant.

On the contrary fucktard, I am quite at peace with myself. It is the only time I don't have to deal with the stupidity of humanity.

You are a great example of what I try to stay away from. Alas, there are way too many of your kind (idiots, asshats, fucktards, and stupid people in general) out there. On the internet your kind is even more prevalent.

Have a nice day AC fuckwit.

But saying that it will turn into a court case which will automatically rule for blacks is a stretch. Courts will rule in line with the rest of their rulings. Private groups have the right to look over their private interests. Where those interests conflict with public accomodation laws, if the beliefs of the group are intrinsic to its operation, the beliefs win out under the vangaurd of First Amendment rights. Read the majority opinion of Supreme Court case "Boy Scouts of America Vs. Dale".

Note: This court case decided whether the Boy Scouts had the right to prohibit homosexuals from its organization
[link]

At the end of the day blacks screaming that there's a nationwide conspiracy by "whitey" to keep them down is just as ridiculous as whites claiming that their government is strongly biased against them. We all have our own different opinions regarding diversity and fairness. While I may not agree with others' take, making wild claims as to the nature of our government is not only disengenuous to our representatives, but to the people (us) who elect them.

But saying that it will turn into a court case which will automatically rule for blacks is a stretch.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However I submit the courts are too afraid of riots than justice and will go with the "politically correct" (if you're black) route.

Private groups have the right to look over their private interests.

Yes they do. How does providing a needy white person really conflict with the Negro College fund's interests? Because they are not allowed to discriminate against a white (wo)man? I understand they are there to help underpriveleged folks. Why limit it to blacks only? They are discriminating, plain and simple. They have anough money to contribute to whites, or mexicans, or whoever is needy at the time if they chose. It isn't like their coffers are being run dry by blacks who want to go to school.

Discrimination is harmful and they (judges being interpreters of the LAW) are obligated to stop it as the acts violate laws that have been set forth. Discrimination goes both ways. The laws were not created just for the black man (or other minority crying about their rights.)

Now if a KKK member decided they wanted to apply for the Negro College fund I could see a conflict of interest there in actively endorsing a hate group which your group is supposed to be opposed to and thus teaching tollerance and acceptance but discriminating against a normal poor white man isn't protecting a private interest.

At the end of the day blacks screaming that there's a nationwide conspiracy by "whitey" to keep them down is just as ridiculous as whites claiming that their government is strongly biased against them.

You are right about the first part it is ridiculous. There is evidence showing the government is bending over backwards to screw whitey to appease the black man. The second part is erroneous because the same evidence proves the screwing is being done to the white man. Whitey isn't even given a kiss after being fucked. The government isn't biased AGAINST them as much as they are biased FOR the black man or minority. They are not treating everyone as EQUALS.

While I may not agree with others' take, making wild claims as to the nature of our government is not only disengenuous to our representatives, but to the people (us) who elect them.

The claims aren't any more wild than the facts the claims represent. It is being done. With facts to prove the stupidity of you folks electing these decision-makers, only you the idiots are to blame for it.

There is no "us" involved as I never voted for any of the asshats who were for this affirmative action bullshit. I wasn't stupid enough to buy into the lies and I had the forsight to see where it was leading.

"We" (the white man) are paying for it now. One can only hope the next evolution of the country changes for the better and does away with the bullshit and assholes with political agendas that are not in the best interest of the country but for a particular race over another.

Oh I know.. And I assume I'll get a huge backlash..

"So they get to celebrate events in their past that really defined the change from then to now."

No, anyone GETS to do it. They have a month that everyone HAS to do it.

"What the government is trying to do is ensure that the black community is given a boost so that the majority of blacks, who are poor, have a chance to go to college and not live a typically subsistence living, where the cycle of poverty and below-average standards of living exist. "

Which in itself is racist. They've singled out blacks... They should be boost everyone, if the majority of blacks are still poor and have no chance to go to college and are below the pverty-line then it wouldn't be because they're black.. But now if they AREN'T poor, DO go to college and are ABOVE the poverty-line it IS because they're black.

Level the playing field.

"And what does the white community really have to celebrate as a race alone? If anything, blacks can have their heritage clubs and what-not because they have emerged, as a whole race, from a dark past, while white people in America, in general, haven't really suffered from something that affected their whole race alone."

White Americans don't have much to celebrate as a race alone other than the history of the Great United States of America. Let's change Black History Month to American History month that way everyone gets a shot not one race.

I will end this comment with a quote from NoFX "Don't call me white, don't call me white."

I am as much Irish-American as Micheal Jordan is African-American.

"Your whining about these examples of discrimination you experience are nothing compared to what minorities face."

What? What exactly do you know of the discrimination I face huh? Are you a white lower-middle class 17 year old male?

"You can't even handle a little because your personal sense of civil rights was so well protected by growing up white."

No I can handle it, it's people like you that whine about your rights as a minority that bring up civil rights issues... You say blacks should get money for being poor, I say I want some too.

"Affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but these bits of minor reverse discrimination you face are a small price to pay for the betterment of our society. Please, have a little understanding and sensitivity."

It hasn't bettered me any. It's bettered a majority of black people. Good for them.. I'm very glad.. They have jobs for being black. Woo hoo.

"Even though your a recently immigrated irish, you live in the same society whose history made it a nicer place for white people than minorities, to this day."

I'm not recently unless you count the past hundred years as recent.. Sorry I cam off as such.
And this is true, America has made it a nicer place for whites than blacks in the past..
We're sorry, get over it.

"And if you want to go to a white club, there are plenty of districts in the U.S. where the population is 100% white, and they have clubs in them."

I want all white clubs, black clubs, asian clubs, and indian clubs (and more) to go away. There are too many of them! There are too many funds for black people, too many clubs for white people.

It is not a balance scale we're working with. It's not "White dudes have as much as black dudes." It's white people and black people are level on the same playing field. No one deserves a fund for there college and no one deserves a club for being pale.

Ditto in every single word.

Check this link out [link]

Yeah, that's why they get the ass if your kid misses school for anything. At my sister's school they are only allowed so many "parent notes" per year otherwise it has to be doctor vist with an excuse from the doctor or a funeral. You can't just say hey I think I'm going go check my kid out a little early cause we need to spend some quality time or my child was late cause my tire was flat this morning. They only take like three excuses like that per year. You have to have one even if you are tardy to only one class, so you might as well miss the whole damn day and make it worth it. And you are given zeros for any test or work you had that day with out an excuse. They claim it's all this trying to keep kids in school and some crap, but we all know it's cause they don't get that money if you don't show up that day.

how many black people do you know? go tell them their oppression is non-existant, and see what they have to say. I mean really, listen to what they have to say about the condition of their lives since they were born. You make it sound like they must live in luxury from all the special rights and protections "average" people don't get. are they in a higher tax bracket than white people, taking all the jobs away from them? has affirmative action driven you from the middle class to poverty, despite all your potential? if you lose one job to a minority, theres more options available to you elsewhere because you are white. hopefully by the next generation things wont be like that anymore and we wont need affirmative action, because it is itself a form of discrimination, but for now its trying to more clearly articulate equality for all citizens, in accordance with our nation's founding principles we citizens hold dear.

"But you are posting as an AC and most likely are a slacking minority and thus defend the broken system"
I'm a white working woman in california, asshole. which shows how ignorant you are. your prejudices led you to the wrong conclusion about who i am, and you're wrong about everything else you have an opinion on too. and whats with all the anger? why do you get so worked up over an anonymous forum? you could express the same opinion civilly, but you prefer taking out your aggressions on people here? i dont need you dumping your personal problems on me, it detracts from the subject at hand.

I would just like to point out that the term "Black Irish" has nothing to do with skin color.

" it's people like you that whine about your rights as a minority that bring up civil rights issues."
hate to burst your bubble but i'm white.

"And this is true, America has made it a nicer place for whites than blacks in the past..
We're sorry, get over it. "
We're trying to, these policies are an attempt at that. The patterns of society so far haven't made a level playing field, and once there is one we won't need affirmative action.

I thought that black Irish refered to Guiness.

Black is a color.

"hate to burst your bubble but i'm white."
But yet you are whining about rights aren't ya?

"he patterns of society so far haven't made a level playing field,"
Yeah because affirmative action gives certain people advantages. See my point?

Name a black person who has been oppressed because they are black in the past 20 years. For every five you can name I bet there are 50 that aren't. Black people aren't oppressed anymore, end of story. Segragation is over, slavery is over, move on! The only reason there's intolerance today is because people of all races still bring up race as an issue. It isn't an issue. You are a person. Do not be defined by your skin color, even if it DOES give you money.

You're stereotyping black people as poor, underpriviledged, slaves when they aren't. They are people just like us. Black poor person, white poor person who gets the money to go to college? Black? White? Black when it comes down to it, thanks to the UNCF.

"if you lose one job to a minority, theres more options available to you elsewhere because you are white."
Not when you loose more than one job.. Not that that's even the point. I should NEVER lose a job because I am white, that is racial discrimination and the constitution protects me from that.

"hopefully by the next generation things wont be like that anymore and we wont need affirmative action, because it is itself a form of discrimination"

You condone discrimination. RACIST!

"you're wrong about everything else you have an opinion on too"

I know that that wasn't addressed to me but that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say. You just said he was wrong on ALL of his OPINIONS. Do you know how predjuice that is? Have you seen his opinions? Do you even know ONE other opinion of his?

"What exactly do you know of the discrimination I face huh?"
I know of the exmples you specifically gave in your previous response, which i was responding to. All the stuff about fewer scholarship options, (even though there are plenty based on grades and non-race qualifications), the lack of a WSU and lost job oppurtunities for companies filling quotas.
If it helps, i felt similarly to you when i was 17, but have since changed my mind.

and also, i was counting the whole post-slavery time period as recent, since your point at the time was that you and your ancestors never enslaved anybody.

"Name a black person who has been oppressed because they are black in the past 20 years. For every five you can name I bet there are 50 that aren't."
i can't find one minority person, not one, who when you ask them, hasn't felt negatively affected by discrimination in their lives.

You're stereotyping black people as poor, underpriviledged, slaves when they aren't.
Look up the census statistics, and on average they live in a lower income level and lower quality of life than white people, by far.

"Have you seen his opinions? Do you even know ONE other opinion of his?"
yes, i have. ive seen him talk absolute nonsense on plenty of other forum subjects, and he is an idiot in every one of them. A hyphenated name i.e. african-american means you have dual citizenship? evolution is species-hopping? wtf? i'd love to see his SAT scores.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However I submit the courts are too afraid of riots than justice and will go with the "politically correct" (if you're black) route.

As amazing as it may sound, justices don't have to pander to politics. I gave an example of a court case that, while although not politically correct by any measure, was constitutionally right. The Supreme Court slants right (and before you Conservatives who know something about the Supreme Court say "But O'Conner is a tool! She can't be Conservative," I say, "Yes, but she's a tool that votes 55% Conservative.") and in a recent court case in Massachusetts legalizing (I'm still not sure exactly what they did, but they initially didn't legalize it, despite what the newspapers said) gay marriage, one of justices, a lesbian, voted against legalization. Her name is Martha Sosman if you care to look it up. You should actually give credit where its due. These people do take their jobs seriously.

Yes they do. How does providing a needy white person really conflict with the Negro College fund's interests? Because they are not allowed to discriminate against a white (wo)man? I understand they are there to help underpriveleged folks. Why limit it to blacks only?

I don't know. But then, it isn't my money to give out. They are a private organization. And, as the Boy Scouts of America vs. Dale case points out, where their organization's core ideological expression conflicts with public accomodation laws, the organization wins out. If you look at other cases, such as the one involving the Rotary Club's case involving women admitted into the club, the club's belief system wasn't mutually based on women or anything regarding women. It was more of a bylaw. However, with private organizations etc. devoted exclusively to one principal - in this case they may be racial - that principal wins out over public interests. And yes, I'm all for private groups discriminating against blacks, jews, gays, atheists, hispanics, whites, etc. Its their group and their belief.

Do I personally agree with discrimination? No, I don't. However, my personal moral principles don't overtake the larger issue of constitutionality and individual responsibilities and rights.

Do I think that all discrimination is bad? No, I don't. Discrimination is widespread based on beliefs, gender, age, etc. For example: you can only collect social security after 65. If we want to make any meaningful headway on this issue, we just must define what discimination is bad and under what terms it should be eliminated.

There is evidence showing the government is bending over backwards to screw whitey to appease the black man. The second part is erroneous because the same evidence proves the screwing is being done to the white man.

If you feel that strongly about this, here's a link [link] .

With facts to prove the stupidity of you folks electing these decision-makers, only you the idiots are to blame for it.

There is no "us" involved as I never voted for any of the asshats who were for this affirmative action bullshit. I wasn't stupid enough to buy into the lies and I had the forsight to see where it was leading.

I have the same problem with liberal as I do conservatives. You cannot claim this country on your own convenience. These people were legitimately elected and now they support the general public's interest which includes you. Your American citizenship does not end with the Democrats or Republican primaries. Your citizenship does not begin and end with your race. You have a responsibility to yourself to further your own interests and aid this country whether black or white.

And, how appropriate for you to change the subject into affirmative action - a completely unrelated subject when discussion private groups furthering private interests - call me an idiot, and say "people like me are the reason" this is happening. Much thanks for laying responsibility for this at my feet.

However, if you feel it is appropriate for you to know, I'm a libertarian which sort of proscribes me from voting for any sort of affirmative action, along with welfare increases, income tax and such nonsense.

"i can't find one minority person, not one, who when you ask them, hasn't felt negatively affected by discrimination in their lives."
I can't find one PERSON who hasn't been discriminated against.

"Look up the census statistics, and on average they live in a lower income level and lower quality of life than white people, by far."
Generalization. I live below several black families by way of income and tax brackets. Saying that black people are "poorer" than white people is preposterous.

"yes, i have. ive seen him talk absolute nonsense on plenty of other forum subjects, and he is an idiot in every one of them. A hyphenated name i.e. african-american means you have dual citizenship? evolution is species-hopping? wtf? i'd love to see his SAT scores."
I never thought I'd defend Rev, but while he's stupid sometimes he's right now, and he was right about evolution, and he's right about the hyphenated names. You can't be a _____-American unless you are part something and part American. If you're an American then you're an American.
You need to get a name AC because you're the kinda person who is going to make even me look good. You need to stop and think about your arguements.

And it would also help not to tell people that their opinions are wrong, because that is freaking retarded. You can't have a wrong opinion.

There are still FEWER scholarship options for me. End of story. And it doesn't help. It'd help if you went on a tolerance and equality campaign for me and my kids, so they can get jobs/scholarships.

well my opinion is that rev is an idiot, and that his opinions are based on perceptions that are wrong.
I dont see labeled african-americans carrying dual citizenship cards that say they are citizens of africa.
"Generalization. I live below several black families by way of income and tax brackets. "
look up the word AVERAGE. Im not making you look good at all, a few families you know doesnt rewrite the census statistical average incomes of black americans versus white people.

You're free to think that Rev is an idiot, you aren't alone. But don't say that his opinions are wrong because it makes you look foolish.

Duh. Because the label that we give to black people is incorrect.

You were generalizing black people as lower income etcetera, end of discussion.

I beg to differ. If you're making Rev look good you must be making me look good. ;)

But I don't live in a happy world of numbers, I know people around me so I base my opinions on them.

Year: 2002

Poverty levels in the United States: 12.1%

Poverty levels among whites: 10.3%

Poverty levels among non-hispanic whites: 8.0%

Poverty levels among blacks: 23.9 - 24.1%

Poverty levels among hispanics: 21.8%

[link]

There are a few theorys where the term came from, none of them having anything to any Africans (what ever color they may be).

oooooo, gotta love statistics. Have a question for you. The top 1%, most of whom are working off old money (inheritated, etc) would be mostly white correct? How bad does that 1% change those numbers I wonder? Just a question mind, not voicing an opinion either way, just that top 1% constitutes a HUGE amount of income that is not readily available to members of any race. Such as if this was the middle ages in europe and you have white serfs and black serfs, but who in general had it worse (Not considering the constant haterd for moors due to the crusades, this is all hypothetical). Lets say the numbers are close (Humor me), but we go off race alone. All the nobility in that area is white, so they get lumped into the mix. Suddenly the white serfs are MUCH better off on paper then in real life. All I am pointing out is that statistics can be twisted to form any need. I am not saying the whites have it worse then another race, I am just saying the raw data needs to interpurted correctly.

I know what what you're saying. Conservative and liberals have long debated on what methods to use when measuring poverty levels and what variables to take into account. For example, "Liberal" numbers, which tend to count fairly affluent and retired old people as poor because they don't work, tend to have high levels of poverty. Sometimes, they also don't take into account other measures that, in fact, make life easier for the poor such as food stamps, etc. Therefor, the numbers are fudged.

Knowing that I did not necessarily want to get into a debate of "liberal" numbers vs. "conservative" numbers, I opted for the census bureau in coming up with these stats. I do think that there are various stats in my link based on the difference of opinion, definition of income, and other and variables and measurements.

The way I understand it, I can be a wealthy old bitch, and when I die I can specify a scholarship fund for Belgian American midgets with premature grey hair. It isn't unfair, because it is my money and I can spend it however I want.

I dont know about Sallie Mae giving out any money to poor people. I am flippin broke and I assure you, they still want their check every month. When I went to school, I did qualify for a pell grant, which is government money. But that is another topic.

There are plenty of scholarship funds set up to target a specific group. When I applied for financial assistance when I went to school in 98, I found a scholarship for people with red hair. Another for students over the age of forty. Unfortunately I didn't qualify for either.

how many black people do you know? go tell them their oppression is non-existant, and see what they have to say.

Quite a few. They think the affirmative action crap is bullshit as well. They hold the opinion that is the lazy asses and those who are looking for an excuse to cause trouble that blame the "oppression" of their forefathers for their current lack of education and money rather than their general laziness.

I mean really, listen to what they have to say about the condition of their lives since they were born.

I mean really, listen to what they have to say about the lazy among them. Listen to why they are stereotyped. My friends never had a problem growing up. They didn't have parents that were also lazy asses who tried to play the system ot blame others for their being fuckups.

You make it sound like they must live in luxury from all the special rights and protections "average" people don't get.

No I make it sound like they get special priveleges (they do) and they receive special benefits the white man doesn't (they do, we don't.)

are they in a higher tax bracket than white people, taking all the jobs away from them?

Interjecting useless info into th argument. Tax brackets have nothing to do with the discussion so it will be disgarded. Many of them are taking jobs they do not qualify for or deserve.

has affirmative action driven you from the middle class to poverty, despite all your potential? if you lose one job to a minority, theres more options available to you elsewhere because you are white.

It has driven me from the upper middle class into the lower middle class so no not poverty but yes it has lowered my chances. Yep more options like being... a security guard, janitor, burger flipper, etc. Tech jobs are moving over seas and being given to minorities in preference. I mean for fuck's sake, they have incompetent ITs here that are too lazy to do their fuckign job and get shit done. They have ME going around fixing people's computers and docking stations while paying me my fucking security guard wage. Why? Because they filled their White people slots and have to hire tar-babies and wet-backs. Quotas to fill regardless of who is here that can do the job and in a proficient and expediant manner.

hopefully by the next generation things wont be like that anymore and we wont need affirmative action, because it is itself a form of discrimination, but for now its trying to more clearly articulate equality for all citizens, in accordance with our nation's founding principles we citizens hold dear.

Do you read your contradictions before you post them?

I'm a white working woman in california, asshole.

Hey cunt, women get special treatment over men as well. Remember that whole equal work for equal pay crap? Do the same fucking job then get paid the same. Stop asking us to pick up heavy loads because you are incapable, stop asking us to get something off the top shelf because you are not able to. Start doing your FAIR FUCKING SHARE then bitch if you get paid less. Useless git.

your prejudices led you to the wrong conclusion about who i am, and you're wrong about everything else you have an opinion on too. and whats with all the anger?

Not prejudiced. You assume too much. I don't like discrimination. The white MAN is being fucked and discriminated against. So far I've refute everything you have said. That isn't defining the word wrong unless they changed it in the dictionary and forgot to tell EVERYONE about it. Anger? It is because of useless whores like you spouting off at the mouth when you haven't a fucking clue as to how the world works. Period.

you could express the same opinion civilly, but you prefer taking out your aggressions on people here?

Listen up dearie, I'll only say this once because you are obviously new here. My patience only goes so far. The more stupidity you show the less civility I show. Don't be a cunt and you'll be treated fairly. Simple really. I was civil until you started acting like a snert. Whiny little bitches like you don't know civility until you are given a couple of black eyes for mouthing off too much about someone not being civil (not that I approve of wife beating) then you cry about it some more.

I'm an asshole and proud of it. I don't let trash like you walk over me with your bullshit. I'm not a clueless chump looking to get iny our pants so what you say means dick here.

i dont need you dumping your personal problems on me, it detracts from the subject at hand.

Typical double standard bullshit that only a woman can bring you. Hey cunt. The topic was discrimination, not what you perceive as a lack of civility or how I discuss matters. Stay on task if you don't want to be reamed bitch.

You'll learn eventually when the subject at hand is your face meeting the hand of the husband/bf/dyke/etc. that you mouth off to without a care as to how you speak yet preaching from on high about what they are supposedly doing.

Now take your yourself back out to the street corner where you belong trollop.

i can't find one minority person, not one, who when you ask them, hasn't felt negatively affected by discrimination in their lives.

i can't find one white person, not one, who when you ask them, hasn't felt negatively affected by discrimination in their lives.

It goes both ways cock-goblin.

Look up the census statistics, and on average they live in a lower income level and lower quality of life than white people, by far.

By choice. If the choice isn't theirs directly it is the choice of their parents. So by that reasoning I should be able to choose to be a lazy ass and live in the ghetto and get rewarded for it.

yes, i have. ive seen him talk absolute nonsense on plenty of other forum subjects, and he is an idiot in every one of them.

Obviously you haven't or refuse to answer truthfully because you have your thong in a twist. Typical cunt response from a cunt that was shut out of an argument. You all do it. Nothing new here.

african-american means you have dual citizenship?

Yes. Are you an American or not? Are you an African or not? If you are both, you are a citizen of both countries. Going by the "standard" misuse of the terminology associated with black people, my muttness would add so many nationalities that it isn't even funny. I'm a God damned American. Period. If you are black and born here you are a fucking American. If you are an African that moved here and because a US citizen and left your African citizenship you are an American. Got it shit-eater?

evolution is species-hopping?

Yes. Worm != Human. We did not evolve from one species (i.e. a worm) into Humans. We did not evolve from an ancient ape (i.e. ancient primate) into Humans. Species hopping would mean we did hop from worms into ancient apes into humans. I would mean we went from worms, to fish, to air breathing walking fish... etc.

i'd love to see his SAT scores.

I haven't had once since the 4th grade. At that time I scored in the 1400 range. It was a long time ago so I don't remember specifically. I'll have to ask my mother as likely still has the results. Not that it matters because you wouldn't believe it anyway -- even if facts are presented you deny them.

Also spitting out false knowledge isn't a form of determining intelligence but a way of determining how well someone memorizes information.

Don't let the door hitcha where the good lord splitcha.

hate to burst your bubble but i'm white.
Hate to burst your bubble but you are a woman and fall into the discriminated minority category. "Equal pay for equal work." Remember that bullshit?

these policies are an attempt at that

No they are just turning the tables and forcing the discrimination to go the other way. When people stop being lazy, when they start doing EQUAL work, and then they are not given jobs or equal pay then they can bitch. Until then they are whininy for no reason and helping to bring about more and more discrimination against the white male.

The patterns of society so far haven't made a level playing field, and once there is one we won't need affirmative action.

You're damn right about the first part. However, we don't need affirmative action now or ever. Get rid of it and the discrimination ends. If individuals start discriminating we have laws to deal witht hat and civil courts. We don't need a legal form of discrimination enforced now through the affirmative action plan.

There are all sorts of goofy sholarships out there. One of my old girlfriends got one because she was left handed!

well my opinion is that rev is an idiot, and that his opinions are based on perceptions that are wrong.

People are often intimidated by those who are superior to them and thus perceived as a threat. I'm sorry you are so fearful. You are wrong and have been proven wrong. Deal with it.

and that his opinions are based on perceptions that are wrong.

They are not wrong when they can be verified. You choose to ignore facts. That would make you in err.

Here's a thought. Black people are in those lower tax brackets because they choose to not do anything better with their lives. They would rather stand around on street corners being thugs than getting involved in extra curricular programs THAT ARE AVAILABLE or getting a damn job to make some money. It is much easier to them to sell drugs or shoot someone and go to jail for a little while than to be a productive member of society. The census is skewed because it is taking unrealistic data from parties that ARE NOT EQUAL IN ANY SENSE.

Want to make a comparison? Compare poor white people to poor black people. Compare working class black men and women to white working men and women. Very similar statistics there. However, the minorities get the special treatment on top of it by way of first pick for jobs etc.

It is unfair to average in lumps of shit into the mix. They are that way by choice. Comparing races doesn't do anyone justice. Those who are worth their weight in gold are lumped in with those who aren't worth their weight in shit.

A proper statistic would be, there is a higher percentage of lazy people who don't get jobs and make anything of themselves inthe blak community vs. the white community.

The choice is there for the minorities without the need for affirmative action. Affirmative action is kind of like a union in that a lazy ass who doesn't deserve a job gets to get/keep it rather than the person who works his ass off because of seniority preference.

Now mind you I'm not saying all minorities are lazy or worthless. However your precious statistics would indicate there is a greater number of them that fit into that category than not.

You are a bitch, maybe it's just Aunt Flo coming for a visit, maybe not.

It has driven me from the upper middle class into the lower middle class so no not poverty but yes it has lowered my chances. Yep more options like being... a security guard, janitor, burger flipper, etc. Tech jobs are moving over seas and being given to minorities in preference. I mean for fuck's sake, they have incompetent ITs here that are too lazy to do their fuckign job and get shit done. They have ME going around fixing people's computers and docking stations while paying me my fucking security guard wage. Why? Because they filled their White people slots and have to hire tar-babies and wet-backs. Quotas to fill regardless of who is here that can do the job and in a proficient and expediant manner.

For christ sake Rev! What the hell. That sounds like you pulled it out of a white hate/power site! Why is everyone suddenly throwing around racial slurs? There is no place for it, you could have stated that civily and gotten a response, I know the point your making, but it gets lost as soon as you start spouting off "tar-babies and wet-backs". Maybe Im more sensitive to it in the south, but hell, you even offended me! Now its just propganda trash. I know how you post, most the time it even makes me laugh cause you go so far off the deep end, but stop the racial shit. We do not need Kungfoo to turn into that kind of site.

The only reason you changed you mind is because you jumped on the feminist bandwagon and started raising issues about equal pay when you never did equal work.

Easy to change one's mind when everything is going for them isn't it?

Facts still remain. Discrimination is live and well. It is the white male who is being discriminated against.

This pretty much sums it up: [link]

The NAACP promotes racial discrimination by seeking discriminatory policies against European-Americans in employment, promotions, scholarships, and in college and union admittance, while EURO seeks equal opportunity for all, with preference for the hardest working, most talented, and best qualified.

The NAACP pushes hard for forced integration and busing, while EURO believes that people should have the freedom to choose their associations. We believe that there is nothing wrong with people of either race associating with their own kind; that the overwhelming majority of Blacks and Whites will choose such a course when they have the freedom to do so. We think that the greatest source of racial tension is the forcing of different races together against their will.

Through a never-ending recital of alleged white oppression against Blacks, the NAACP promotes an atmosphere of resentment and hatred toward Whites. EURO seeks greater racial understanding and goodwill by showing that when all things are considered, Blacks have enjoyed far more benefits from their association with Whites than they have endured privation. American Blacks have the highest standard of living, the greatest educational and employment opportunity, and by far the most democratic and civil rights of any Black population in the world.

I'd join but I'm not wasting money to pay for equal rights. Maybe if they bitch and moan enough like the minorities did things will change.

That's a David Duke site... who listens to David Dookie?

what a waste of drive space.

"Why is everyone suddenly throwing around racial slurs?"

The only one who has consitently posted racial slurs and insults is Rev.

I have a book here, published in Scotland but wirtten by Irish academics, that descrubes how Irish labour was often used in preference to slave labour in the west indies because it ws cheaper to lose a paddy ina dangerous job than a valuable slave. Irish people were treated like shit, in fact so shit that English slavers were even told that "native irish" slaves were unsalable. Seen as too much trouble.
Can I have a scholarship? Yes, but only if I earn it through ahrd work, same as any other person in Ireland, colour is not an issue.
I think things have gone way wrong in US, from reading the posts it seems that the PC lobby are creating dislike and bad feeling with this "positive discrimination" crap. Race is simply not such an issue, not in the UK at any rate. Ireland has some problems but still not as bad as US.
I'll dig the book out and the ISBN number if anyone is that interested. It's called "The Origins of racism in Ireland".

Sorry to be anon. but i aint got a Foo name yet.

I was taught at school that black and white are not colours... White being all colours together, and black being the absence of colour/light.

Oh, BTW, in the north of Ireland "Black" means something very different, it means an extreme form of Protestantism, sort of like the Orange Order or Royal Arch Purple.

Depends if you are talking about pigment or the color of light.

You take all paint colors and mix um, you get grey.

Exactly just because there are a higher number of black people who are poor doesn't mean that black people can't get jobs.

Heck yes. My last name is Sullivan! Send me some cash!

we don't get grey people though do we, maybe we aint mixed enough yet...

since when is Africa a country you can hold citizenship in?

Get rid of it and the discrimination ends.
No, get rid of it and the patterns of society which so far haven't made a level playing field, continue the same.

you are a woman and fall into the discriminated minority category.
i have never felt discriminated against as a woman, in my job field. the only person to discriminate against me for being a woman is you. i never made one mention of women-as-minority issues and you jumped right into it because of your prejudices.

No, i changed my mind when i realized the reverse-discrimination argument was a gross oversimplification of all the issues at play.

=) I would, but then rev would discriminate on a regular basis based on who i am and this way he can't because he can't tell who is talking, and forces him to be more neutral and fair. im just saving him from himself. His debate skills went all to shit after i gave him a few details on who i was.

You were generalizing black people as lower income etcetera, end of discussion.
Yes, because thats how the numbers generalize them. There's really no problem here.


"But I don't live in a happy world of numbers, I know people around me so I base my opinions on them."
thats a very little world to base your opinions on. but ur 17 so i'll cut you some slack.

"Yes, because thats how the numbers generalize them. There's really no problem here."

Look past the numbers into the reality of the issue... The discrimination envolved.


"thats a very little world to base your opinions on. but ur 17 so i'll cut you some slack."
You didn't use uppercase on "thats" you also didn't use an apostrophe and you spelled "you're" ur. You are obviously either a total moron, foreign, or 13. I'll cut you some slack.

"No, get rid of it and the patterns of society which so far haven't made a level playing field, continue the same."
Patterns like discrimination based on race... Like affirmative action? Don't you realize those ARE the patterns of society?

"i have never felt discriminated against as a woman, in my job field. the only person to discriminate against me for being a woman is you. i never made one mention of women-as-minority issues and you jumped right into it because of your prejudices."
But it doesn't change the fact that you fall into a discriminated minority. Black people in this day and age haven't been over discriminated against, and neither have women. But some black people have and some white people have and some women have and some men have and some other people have.


It's a game of favorites that you're playing. Like teachers in school that have their "Teacher's Pet" or are nicer to girl or guy students. You're just arguing that the discrimination against blacks has made it necessary to give them special help. If you really think about it you're saying that a normal black guy isn't smart or brave enough to overcome minor prejudices.

No, what im saying is the black community as a whole doesnt suffer only minor prejudices, they suffer more without affirmative action than the white community suffers from affirmative action. Its democratic to find a solution that benefits the most number of people. No matter how much you believe it to be true, affirmative action is a policy, it is bureaucratic guidelines, with no roots of hatred and intolerance. white people wrote the policies themselves. really, grow up and learn get out a little first before you keep equating affirmative action with racism. No one decided in their mind to write the policies of affirmative action specifically to hate on white males, its about helping people.

"But it doesn't change the fact that you fall into a discriminated minority."
that has nothing to do with why i wrote that up there. but what are you are trying to say, that if i wasnt a "minority" i wouldnt care about the goals of civil rights for everybody? isnt it just christian to have some charity and to give up something for the good of others? If people did affirmative action as a society on their own without legislated policy, that would be just great, but they don't and we as a country have to care enough about the nations problems to work toward solving them.

grasping at straws, are we?

Listen to you, complaining that you need a whole campaign just for you. You are nobody. Why would you alone deserve a whole award program? And you have the nerve to suggest its groups of minorities are the slackers who just sit around getting help handed to them. The ones who are like that don't win the scholarship contests, and neither will you, not because you are a white male but because your a lazy shit.

"No, what im saying is the black community as a whole doesnt suffer only minor prejudices, they suffer more without affirmative action than the white community suffers from affirmative action."

You're saying that the black community is more important than the white community, racial prejudice.

"Its democratic to find a solution that benefits the most number of people."

It is, doesn't mean I support it, condone it, or think that it is always morally right. Afterall, we aren't talking about benefitting the most people, we're talking about benefitting the black people.

"No matter how much you believe it to be true, affirmative action is a policy, it is bureaucratic guidelines, with no roots of hatred and intolerance."

No matter how much you believe it to be true, affirmative action is a discriminating ideal that doesn't work in the long run to do anything but continue the current unlevel playing field.

"white people wrote the policies themselves."

That is A.) A very racist statement and B.) totally unrealated. I don't care who wrote it, it's still a stupid and discriminate thing.

" really, grow up and learn get out a little first before you keep equating affirmative action with racism."

It is racism. Racism is defined as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race." What else is it? Discrimination for the alledged "Common good" is still discrimination.

"No one decided in their mind to write the policies of affirmative action specifically to hate on white males, its about helping people."

Helping people of a certain race more than people of a certain other race. Racism.

"that has nothing to do with why i wrote that up there. but what are you are trying to say, that if i wasnt a "minority" i wouldnt care about the goals of civil rights for everybody?"

Being a minority does make you more sympathetic to their cause. Spend a month being a single white male.

"it just christian to have some charity and to give up something for the good of others?"

Not the point. It isn't chirstian to give charity to a black man but not a white man.

"If people did affirmative action as a society on their own without legislated policy, that would be just great, but they don't and we as a country have to care enough about the nations problems to work toward solving them."

If people did away with Affirmative Action and put in the "Get into Action" policy, whereby minorities are encouraged to get a job by being smarter and better than the other guy, not darker than him, then the world would be a better place.

We could also use a "no more races" bill that states that no one is allowed to have "Racial Pride" or even refer to themselves by a race other than human.

You don't know what you're talking about. If you'd even been paying a little bit of attention to what I've been saying on this thread you'd know.

Affirmative Action is wrong. People do not need campaigns for themselves because they are black, white, left-handed, or have parents that are still married. What I was saying is just what you said, although I said it more tactfully and without being a rude and comming off like a jerk. Now...

I do(will) win scholarship contests. I am not a lazy shit. I do not deserve a handout and neither do minorities. How would you feel if I was a black guy saying, "Oh, I just don't think I can compete in this white-male controlled world. There's just no way to overcome the racial injustices my ancestors have endured."? Here's the way I feel about it, "Oh, no one cares. Study harder and get your own academic scholarship."

You need to pay more attention.

Actually it is very appropriate I go back to affirmative action. I have been bitching about it the whole time. It is a form of discrimination. the UNCF is a form of discrimination. Sorry for going back to what I was originally bitching about. Next time I'll stay off on the tangent.

Do I personally agree with discrimination? No, I don't. However, my personal moral principles don't overtake the larger issue of constitutionality and individual responsibilities and rights.

Great. However you mention individual responsibilities and rights. This has nothing to do with the discrimination of GROUPS which are in the PUBLIC eye. While the UNCF may be a "private" group they are a publicly available "service" if you will.

By the logic I'm seeing, I could open a restaurant and call it a "private" establishment which by rights I can because I choose to cater to who I want to serve to thus excluding certain groups of people. If I chose to not serve black folks for example, people would sue me. It wouldn't matter that I'm a "private" restaurant there for a select group of private individuals. Another example could be the KKK opening a BBQ shop and not selling to blacks because it is a private organization's fund raising event. It's discrimination. It's in the public regardless if a private individual(s) owns the place.

Heh, age discrimination regarding social security. I hate gated communities. If they discriminate and won't let us move into the place, they shouldn't be allowed out. Fair trade :eyemouth:

These people were legitimately elected and now they support the general public's interest which includes you.
They do not support me or represent me if I did not help to elect them. Period. They only support their party's interests. If a majority party rules in a state the minority party gets fucked.

I'm an American. Can't change that. I was born here. I didn't choose to be born here just like I didn't help elect the people who claim to represent me.

I completely agree with you.

No. But I don't like people "cutting slack" because I'm 17. Just like I wouldn't want people cutting slack because I'm white, black, female, Jewish, Canadian, gay, Chinese, Japanese, African, Asian, etcetera.

Just for information's sake, I use the roll eyes icon whenever an appropriate icon isn't available. In this case, confusion.

First of all, affirmative action was never mentioned in this threat before you said it.

By the logic I'm seeing, I could open a restaurant and call it a "private" establishment which by rights I can because I choose to cater to who I want to serve to thus excluding certain groups of people.

Reverend, I have taken great pains to make a distinction between just "plain" association and expressive association. Please, take time to read it through. In fact, read through the Supreme Court case involving the Boy Scouts.

When asked if he knows any blacks, Rev says, "Quite a few. They think the affirmative action crap is bullshit as well."

Right. I don't think anyone believes that for a minute. Besides being the most knee jerk reply to the, "You are a racist" question. (I have black friends.) you tack on the AA is crap line.

What a joke. I'd like you to find four blacks who wholly believe that AA is bullshit. I think that at it's heart, 99.9% of blacks would think that AA is a good idea. When you've got idiots like your buddy David Duke out there, the playing field is not even.

Why don't you tell your black friends about Foo and share your screen name with them. Link them to this conversation thread and see what they think of you joking around about "spear chuckers" and quoting from David Duke's web site.

Sometimes when all you do is cut and paste, you don;t pay attention to when you are cutting from.

I think that Google is going to start bending popular belief whenever the hell it wants. Hopefully Yahoo!s new search engine ramps up.

I hear that crap about socio-economically disadvantaged all the time. If you really think about it, they are that way because of decisions their parents made, not what happened to their ancestors 150 years ago. It's just another way to say "It's not my fault" .. When will people start to take responsibility for their OWN actions???.. What a novel idea.

luv you guys giggle giggle

The point is that the people that made this scholarship were referring to RACE NOT NATIONALITY. There are a lot of scholarships that have restraints that are for Irish people or for German people and for even for people with one blue eye and one green eye. The point is everyone can't get one individual scholarship so they make the requirements narrow.