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    Bombs over Baghdad
    Posted by burn2shine on Oct 18, 2002 at 09:27 AM

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    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 18, 2002 at 09:36 AM
    When will it end? Hopefully if a bomb drops on you!:P
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 18, 2002 at 05:09 PM
    Great Article!

    It's nice to see that there are still some individual Americans who can see the big picture.

    The Dalai Lama once said:
    When you look at the world from space, there is no lines separating countries, peoples, or cultures.

    It's all in your head.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 08:16 AM
    The Dalai Lama once said:
    When you look at the world from space, there is no lines separating countries, peoples, or cultures.

    Can you clarify when he said this statement Lep?
    SpectreJordan's Avatar .
    SpectreJordan spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 09:31 AM
    I understand the global implications of what we may be embarking on, and if you want to regard Iraq as the first, you're entitled to that - but it still has to be done. I truly believe that Hussein could bring about the next world war if he so wanted. If you happen to watch CNN or CSPAN you should see the profile of this madman and in fact his family. The country of Iraq is hell on earth. Hussein kills all who oppose him or even potentially those who may oppose him - even his own family members. His son-in-law, a mass murderer, is responsible for so many atrocities, that I can truly say I would go out of my way to kill him if given the chance. This regime must end - legally, illegally, by mercenaries, even through nuclear or biological means.... For those of you who say this is extreme - wait until your family dies from tainted, poisoned water- or an airborne virus, or you sit and watch the flesh fall from your own bones as you're irradiated into ash...... Then tell me that solving our problems through diplomatic means shold be our only recourse - As you die - you'll wish the same fate for the people responsible and wonder why it's happening to you.....
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 11:13 AM
    Although I am still making up my mind about the possible war in Iraq, my inclination is to agree with Spectre. The fact remains that Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction in defiance of the agreements Iraq made with the UN as conditions of its surrender during the Gulf War. The UN knows this and has demonstrated that even with US support, it is too ineffectual/cowardly/unable/whatever to enforce its decision. The UN's authority as a peacekeeping organization is limited to its ability to enforce its decisions, so it has proved that it is a paper tiger, and I don't see how it should be allowed to hold the US back. Just because the UN and Clinton allowed Saddam to slide for the past decade doesn't mean it should continue.
    Anyway, the point is, if someone (the US, the UN, somebody) doesn't intervene, Iraq will have nuclear weapons, probably within the next 5 years. And Saddam has demonstrated his willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, he even gassed his own people! Way I see it, it'd be easier to sit back and do nothing, but if Iraq isn't dealt with now, it will be a lot harder to deal with them later on. And we WILL have to deal with them eventually.
    What baffles me is how come we haven't received more support from Europe and the Middle Eastern states. If they believe that a nuclear-armed Iraq doesn't pose a major threat to them, they are gravely mistaken.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 12:12 PM
    You have not recieved support from Arab states because they fear the consequences of this war; if democracy if brought to one Arab state - what's to say that it will not spread to other states which would mean the fat cat sheikhs' positions would be threatened - and they certainely do NOT want to give up their god-like lives...
    As for Europe, they have not been personally/emotionally affected by 9/11 so it is easier to preach peace than war. If this war DOES take place then they will be branded as cowards for not joining in. They have good reason not to join in anyway - recent tests in desert conditions showed how badly prepared they are to fight in such a hot country; their shoes melted, their tanks clogged up with sand. It would cost a lot of money to rectify this; money they do not necessarily want to spend on something which they don't see to be a threat....yet...
    guitari2600's Avatar .
    guitari2600 spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 12:56 PM
    Jon Stewart told us that Georgie would be bombing them after new year's, cause he can't focus on anything until after Santa comes.
    everyonelovesaspanking's Avatar .
    everyonelovesaspanking spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 01:42 PM
    I hope Baghdad rapes USA in its sleep....bombs...what the hell are they thinking?.....war is for fools
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 03:17 PM
    Max - Graduate from High School before you make a stupid comment - If you think Toronto and the surrounding province will be saved from the next world war - you obviously need to gain a better grasp on reality - SO, while you can: Hug a rainbow, save a tree and drink the kool-aid when they give you the cup.........you little child
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 20, 2002 at 04:21 PM
    The author makes some intriguing points, and while the report he quotes is indeed frightening, it was hardly commissioned by Dick Cheney et al last year. On the title page, it says it was published in September 2000. I realise it is hardly the less dangerous for that, it would improve the author's credibility if the basic details behind the premise was correct.
    everyonelovesaspanking's Avatar .
    everyonelovesaspanking spoke on Oct 20, 2002 at 07:10 PM
    LOL
    nonononono
    I know that we are all fucked in the next word war...im not dumb. I want to be Prime Minister when i grows up....lol wait thats a little off topic but anyway....yes i know that all north america is fucked. not dumb. I wanna have my video camera with me when the big one drops. what a fucken show that will be.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 01:29 AM
    The reason why "Europeans" (quotes, because it is actually pretty much the whole world, including a lot of Americans ...) don't seem so enthusiatic about a war in Iraq is not because "their tanks melt in hot weather countries" or things like that. It rather because they don't rely on CNN as their only source of information. You guys obviously have internet, so why don't you use it? It might be a shock to you, but what's on TV is not always the truth... So why don't you read about what the rest of the world thinks of all that (and yes, it includes people of different skin colors). You will most likely find lies and exaggerations to, but you can use your intelligence to sort it out. Make up your own opinion. Try to see the big picture... Traveling is also a great way of improving your understanding of other cultures. No one is totally evil, no one tells only the truth. You probably know that already. And it should seem rather obvious to most that it also applies to International politics... So use your common sense, take some time and try to really analyze what you see on TV or read in the paper: what they show, and what they DON'T show you... For example, I wonder why the New York Times called the man in power in Pakistan the "President" right after 9/11 when they were helping (and useful to) the US, and 3 months later used his real title: "General" (specifying the he got in power after a coup d'etat) when they were not so supportive of the the US actions in the Middle East anymore... Little details like that all the time... Realize who they works for... Who's paying them? Not you...
    As for Nuclear weapons, the US is the only country that actually used them in the past...
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 01:33 AM
    btw, the article doesnt say the report was commissioned by Cheney... Read again.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 09:33 AM
    Thank you for clarifing you are an idiot, it was in the air there for awhile...
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 09:55 AM
    Well if you feel so strongly in your beliefs - why did u post anonymously?
    Also, I have looked around the net and I have made up my mind that the middle eastern monarchies should be overthrown by whatever means possible. What gives them the right to do absolutely nothing but control the countries resources, dictate what they think is right for their people, and basically just be a waste of space??
    The US is not perfect but can you give me another country where they publicly reveal the sexual relations of a president in gratuitous(sp?) detail?
    Everyone screams bloody murder whenever the US does something which would affect other countries because it is so well publicised. However, if you look at the fundamental structure and sociality of these dictatorship countries, you will see that the basic human rights of freedom are being violated to such an extent that people are afraid to run for president because they could be asassinated. The US is the only country that used nuclear weapons because they invented them! and they did not really know the enviromental consequences because it was so new and all they knew was that it made a big boom. And although I disagree with using the bomb in a civilian city which has shown tremendous civilian damage, even today, it made Japan surrender - the Japan that attacked pearl harbour without warning, invaded several asian countries and occupied them with force. They even used kamikazee fighters to inflict damage. And lots of countries have "used" nuclear weapons - how do you think they test them?? - the US is the only one to have used them AGAINST someone.

    By the way - I have travelled a lot and I think that most people in the democratic world support the US and those who do not - do not realise the suffering of the people there.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 09:55 AM
    ...so the rest of the world is reluctant to face down Iraq because they watch news sources other than CNN. What do these news sources say to influence their opinion? I'd prefer facts other than "they get their information from other places." What information, exactly?
    And don't cite any Arab news sources please. CNN may have trouble keeping itself unbiased sometimes, but at least they don't report absurdities like Jews making pastries with the blood of Muslim children.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 10:22 AM
    The agruement that everyone hates the US is an extreme short sided view. From my travels (limited, yes, but Europe, Central America, and Canada) people are very receptive of the US, and are supportive. And what is this about CNN being such a horrible news source, what news source are you using? Please, enlighten us. The nuke comment was just ignorant (The anon, not Hoochie). Please brush up on your history before you use that as some kind of indicator as to the US agenda.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 21, 2002 at 11:46 AM
    lol blood pastry!
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 03:02 AM
    Nowhere in my "argumentation" did I say or imply that everyone hated the US. I don't know where you got that from.
    As for the "nuke comment," it is actually a fact. No other country ever used a nuclear bomb. I don't see how you can possibly think I'm ignorant or even just how much I know about the historical background of this tragedy just from my comment.
    And, sorry, but I won't waste my time trying to "enlighten". All I get from you is sarcasm, insult and aggressiveness, so I doubt you'd listen...
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 03:29 AM
    I posted anonymously because I didn't feel like going through the registration process. Now, tell me what's so brave about revealing to the whole world that you go by the nickname of "Hoochiebagoochie"?
    If, for you, the sign of a healthy democracy is to be regularly updated on the sexual life of your President with all the details, then I understand why CNN satisfies you as your main source of information.
    You have "looked around the net and you have made up your mind"... Sorry, but it's hard to believe when your "opinion" sounds like a over simplified CNN headlines. I would give you links of alternate sources of information, but when I read things like "The US is the only country that used nuclear weapons because they invented them!" I realize that I'm really wasting my time here. I won't come back on this forum so don't waste your energy insulting me.
    I know you guys won't miss me ;)
    Well... have fun watching "Irak II, with a vengeance" coming soon on CNN... Meanwhile, I'll try to "realize the suffering of the people there"...
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 03:42 AM
    So... "Europe preaches peace because they have not been emotionally affected by 9/11". So, that's really what we're talking about here: emotional reaction - > vengeance: they took two buildings down and killed thousands of people. So we'll take more down and kill much more people.
    What happened to "the suffering of the people there". Why do you pretend to give a shit about them? Just let it out man... Say what you really think...
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 08:36 AM
    you read the whole comment instead of saying: "No other country ever used a nuclear bomb". Right! and I suppose that Russia, India, Pakistan etc just built the bomb using theory. When you hear about underground testing - they are testing the bomb by blowing it up in secret locations so the obvious observation must be that they are USING A NUCLEAR BOMB, even if it is for testing purposes so either you think the whole world is in some sort of conspiracy or you just do not know what other countries are up to which would make you ignorant.

    P.S. if you are not ready to handle sarcasm, insults and agressiveness, then I suggest you go to a site which is more age oriented ([link])
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 08:45 AM
    You REALLY need to brush up on your education and stop thinking that everything is a conspiracy. The point of my whole "showing the presidents sex life" thing was to show the principal of things; the freedom of the press which is not available in most other countries to the extent it was with Clinton.
    "but when I read things like "The US is the only country that used nuclear weapons because they invented them!" "
    I would like anyone to disagree with me on that fact!
    By the way - I think you WILL come back to this site just to see the responses and you will find most people laughing at you.

    P.S. In the meantime, learn to spell IraQ properly.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 10:58 AM
    This doesn't have anything to do with 9/11. It has everything to do with nuclear weapons, and a madman who is willing to use them.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 22, 2002 at 11:12 AM
    [link]
    guitari2600's Avatar .
    guitari2600 spoke on Oct 25, 2002 at 02:10 PM
    i think noname meant use of a nuclear weapon in an act of agression.
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 25, 2002 at 07:12 PM
    It's in his book,

    "How to Practice: The way to meaningful life.) I think it may also be in his other book, "An Open Hear." Really good reads, I recommend them.
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 25, 2002 at 07:14 PM
    Oops, I mean- an open Heart! ...with a t.
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 25, 2002 at 07:31 PM
    He spelled it like that on purpose. Hoochie-Im really suprised to see that while you views on religion are very open minded. It seems quite different when it comes to Politics.

    How much has the US not told you?

    Does CNN tell you about the various times when they have tested chemical and biological agents on other countries without there concent? In Alberta the US tested a deadly chem. agent without consent. Biological atrocities have been commitied against China. Have you heard about the time in the late 70's when they flew over rural areas dropping animal body parts that had traces of agents that can easily spread to humans. Even recently the US has bombed Hydro Electric dams in Afganistan, taking power from thousands of people. These people can't even drink clean water anymore.

    I agree that Saddam needs to be overthrown. But for god sakes, get in, get the job done, put in a stabble government and get the fuck out. I fear for civilian lives as the war on Afganistan proved that America relies less on accuracy and more on cluster bombs. Some of you guys really need to outgrow the cowboy mentality of - shoot first, ask later.
    everyonelovesaspanking's Avatar .
    everyonelovesaspanking spoke on Oct 26, 2002 at 12:18 AM
    you know what?.......you are just dumb. The US says that Iraq is bad because they have weapons. who the fuck do they think that they are?....The U.S.A. has the most nuclear weapons in the world. I say that the UN needs to take all the bombs in America out or there will be shit to pay. The U.S.A is the threat to democracy. The U.S.A has NO right what so ever to police other countries. It looks like that if the U.S. keeps on acting as the cop then there will be more terrorist attacks on the country. Its up to you guys. But just dont base everything you believe by CNN.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 26, 2002 at 03:20 AM
    I am not totally pro American and I do disagree with stuff it does, i.e. representing only a small fraction of the worlds population and yet swallowing most of its resources, same goes for emitting pollution.
    And why does everyone think I watch CNN? I watch a mixture of MSNBC and Al Jazeera. I think those chemical tests/violations are not a reflection of the American people but the decisions of underground scientists, military advisors who are allowed to work autocratically and therefore would not need consent from the people. Im sure other countries do the same thing; you cannot just blame them cause it is well publisised.

    By going in and out so quickly, without rebuilding damage that would be caused, then the people are going to hate you - and that will reflect on the next person they elect; who will come to power on an anti American agenda - and there you go - Sadaam Hussein II.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 26, 2002 at 03:33 AM
    Are you talking to? This comment system is getting a bit confusing now.

    However, I will reply to your ignorant comment; The US has the most nuclear weapons in the world but what makes you think that they will use it? In fact, together with Russia, they are decommisioning a proportion of them. The United Nations is based in New York, i.e. America which makes you think why they didn't choose Iraq or something as their headquarters.

    The USA does have a right to police other countries when their national security is threatened by these countries and that if human rights atrocoties are being commited. It might just be easier to turn a blind eye to what is going on in these countries but it would be easier to liberate the citizens of countries "run" by tyrants.

    "But just dont base everything you believe by CNN."
    Hm don't just follow the other posts like a sheep who drone "don't follow CNN, don't follow CNN" - you are in 10th grade - which makes you what? around 15/16? Do you even WATCH CNN to an extent where you can understand everything they are saying? Or do you even watch it at all? If you did, you would have never have posted such an ignorant comment most likely based on fragmented arguments you hear. Once you are old enough, I suggest you visit a Middle Eastern country and then you will know what I am on about.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 26, 2002 at 10:05 AM
    Im sure it was Joseph Campbell who thought up that piece of philosophy...?
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 27, 2002 at 05:00 PM
    That cartoon is SO right!
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 27, 2002 at 07:17 PM
    That's very funny. You say the US has no right to police other countries but who does the rest of the world run to when the shit hits the fan? (Hint: It ISN'T the UN.)
    The US saved Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Iraq, Europe from Adolf Hitler, the Afghan people from the Taliban, Israel from everybody...examples of the US saving other countries asses go back to the country's very formation. The world demands the US play the cop because no other country has the strength or will to do the job themselves. The gratitude the US gets for its effort is half-assed criticism from people who conveniently forget every instance in which the US comes to the rescue. Fine, you want the US to quit playing the cop, that's okay, just don't come crying to us the next time there's a major world crisis. Go cry to the UN instead, see how far it gets you.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 27, 2002 at 07:32 PM
    That's pretty funny. You say the US has no right to police other countries. Okay, fair enough, but who do other countries run to for help when the shit hits the fan? (Hint: It ISN'T the UN.)
    The US has a long, proud history of saving other countries' asses. They saved Europe from Hitler, the Afghan people from the Taliban, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Iraq, Israel from everybody....and the rest of the world basically demands the US play cop to the globe because no other country has the strength or wherewithal to do the job themselves. Time after time the US swoops in to the rescue at a victim country's request, then later on after the crisis has been solved, the US is accused of "butting in." Revisionist history at its finest. What would these critics accuse the US of if it DIDN'T act to keep world peace? There's just no satisfying some people.
    You want the US to stop playing the cop, fine, just don't come crying to the US the next time there's a world crisis. Go cry to the UN instead, see how far it gets you.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Nov 11, 2002 at 05:43 AM
    I make bread with muslim blood and guts. It's not cannabalism 'cause a sand nigger aint human. They need a good nuking, just like the japs.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Dec 07, 2002 at 11:29 PM
    Nobody comes crying to the US and teh US helps nobody unless it fulfills its own self interest first. Why do you think that teh US went all out helping Kuwait? Do u really believe it was because it couldn't stand the autrocities? GROW UP! the US needs Kuwait for its oil resources. why do u think Bush is all ready to over throw Saddam and establish a new government? because any government the US establishes will be a little bitch of the US giving teh US power over Iraq's resources. and when teh US bombed Afghanistan in such a hurry, let me inform you that they have had their eyes on it for a while due to its strategic position. they want to have their air bases there. the US is no more innocent than teh taleban. they have bombed Hiroshima Nagasaki only to "test" their atomic bomb. At least the taleban has some motive. So dont be America's advocate without knowing your facts!
    AlmightyOne's Avatar .
    AlmightyOne spoke on Jan 10, 2003 at 07:52 PM
    What nuclear weapons?
    AlmightyOne's Avatar .
    AlmightyOne spoke on Jan 10, 2003 at 08:13 PM
    I want you to look at this in a wider vision than that of CNN or any other
    media company. True Saddam is probably armed with Chemical and Biological
    weapons, thats fairly clear. True also that he will not let anyone stand in
    his way when running Iraq. True also that he could release these weapons on
    our countries. But then look at it from this point of view, my brother is
    being sent to Iraq right at this minute and to be honest i don't have full
    belief that Saddam ever intended to use those weapons. If he did it would be
    mass suicide on his part because every western country with Nuclear weapons
    would blow him apart. There is alot of talk of him aided terrorists in
    particular Bin Laden, thats crap. By all rights they hate each other, Saddam
    Hussien stands for something that Bin Laden dislikes very much, and vice
    versa. The country you want to be looking out for on supporting Bin Laden is
    Arabia. They have long supported his terror camps etc and funded certain
    projects. I am going to cut short now because i could go on for a while
    debating certain media and dare i say it political bullshit. At the end of
    the day if America went in without a mandate then it would certainly stir up
    a nest of ants in the middle east. You may not like to hear this but America
    is hated by alot of countries on this side of the atlantic purely because it
    is seen as always throwing its weight around. Middle Eastern countries are
    fed up of Western countries poking their noses in, this is why you have
    terrorists against your country. Islamic extremists are fed up with America
    not being sensitive to their religion and they think you think they are abit
    of a joke. Take one step back and read what excuses countries are coming out
    with for their attacks in the middle east. Ever since you started your war on
    terror, Putin has used the words War on Terror to explain
    Checyina(spelling???) campaign, the palastein(spelling again???) conflict has
    also had the words War on Terror used. Now i am not saying that we forget
    9/11 but never jump into something before you know what exactly your jumping
    into, otherwise you can come out smelling of shit! Sorry for any offence to
    anyone. In my opinion Saddam does need to give up his dictatorship but lets
    explore other avenues first before we commit equipment, and my brother and
    his fellow soldiers.

    Too my shame i did not read everyone's comments but now i have has just
    proven my point how much America does not understand Europe. In American
    courts you believe in Guilty until proven innocent whilst in Europe we
    believe in Innocent until proven guilty. I also read someone saying that they
    are fed up with being a cop for the world. Saving our ass in the world and
    apparently in Afganistan. Well not long ago i watched a video i have
    something to do with the mililtary and they are at the moment trying to get
    people to sign up for special services. Well they showed a video of part of a
    mission in Afgan. They were called into a fight between American soldiers and
    hostile forces numbers were around 100 Americans to 850 Afgans. Now you would
    think that 100 against 850 is bad enough well it was they were pinned down.
    Along came our SBS working in a team of 6 not exactly big reinforcements i
    know but they set up a gunning post anyway(seen on home video they had made
    with camera). Over a period of 3 days the SBS kept the Afgans back whilst
    American soldiers got their ass's out of there. By the end of the three days
    50 afgans were left. Please don't preach to me about how good your military.
    I've heard a voice recording of an American pilot dropping a bomb on military
    forces below only to say afterwards "Jeez i hope that was the right place" he
    killed 10 innocent Canadian forces. During the Gulf Britain lost more men to
    American friendly fire than we did to the enemy. Fair enough we need you in
    numbers, but military tactics and procedures leave something to be desired.
    Going to the point on Nuclear weapons Iraq tried to purchase Uranium need to
    make a bomb but was denied access to it. They have capability to do it but no
    material of which to build it with. Now coming back to how you would deliver
    such a thing, Iraq's is only capable of reaching Greece with its presents
    missle systems. America need not worry. You have had one major attack on the
    States. I bring you to back to Britain and see that we have managed to stop
    1st. a chemical attack on our underground system and then 2nd. Just recently
    discovered production of Ricin. If either of them had been released during
    peak times damage could of been tremendous, your not the only ones from
    threat. I also ask you to read the UK's dossier on Chemical and Bilogical
    weapons within Iraq. You can attain these from any mod site. Its only 56
    pages but a good read on what some of our intelligents has to say. Before i
    go i want to say that we are not cowards merely we think things through and
    infact your own goverment recognises our special forces achievements. They
    were going to award a one of your highest medals of honour to a few SAS guys
    but they turned it down because they felt like they were being used by your
    government.Sorry i am going to go now because i am shattered.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jan 27, 2003 at 01:02 PM
    in reality, to support what hoochie says regarding nukes being used by other countries...
    Russia has tested their nukes to the extent where many russians and people living in countries on the outskirts of russia have been radiated to mutilation from radioactive fallout due to testing
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Mar 01, 2003 at 10:05 AM
    or "follow your bliss", Cambell admired Ghandi
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Mar 01, 2003 at 01:54 PM
    Saying somehow bin Laden and Saddam's idealogical scruples will prevent them from interacting with eachother is inane. Bin Laden supports suicide bombings, civilian deaths and desecrates the holy religion of Islam. His ideology isn't Islam, its death to the United States and he will achieve it by any means. Muslims, instructed by their own Koran, are actually supposed to respect their fellow Christians and Jews as "children of the book." Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Suicide is condemned as are a host of other immoral acts that the terrorists try to justify through their warped thinking. These men twist Islam to suit their needs; they aren't bound by it. Ultimately, if needed, these men would not hesistate to engage whomever would be willing to help them.
    Saddam gassed civilians, tortures prisoners, hangs bodies at his airports, etc. etc....his survival and power is his only gain and moral. He would be willing to share biological or chemical weapons *which he has no shortage of* just to get back at the U.S. Because he couldn't deploy them through any official means - he knows we'd be on top of him before he could dream of pushing the little red button - he's more inclined to share them with terrorists through unofficial means. He tried to assassinate George Bush 41 with a terrorist attack and has threated terrorist attacks on the U.S. if the Iraqi war starts. Furthermore, linking the Palestinian terror conflict to Iraq would be easy since Saddam awards money to families who give their sons to become martyrs. If you want links, I'll provide them.
    Saudi Arabia has pissed themselves and have officially announced structural reforms towards Democracy - exactly what were trying to accomplish. It doesn't lessen the legitimacy of the Iraqi conflict.
    Radical Islamists would be around regardless of whether the U.S. left the peninsula. Albeit it is a good idea to leave our Middle Eastern bases, we can't because it would look like a concession to the terrorists - it would embolden them. During our retreat from our activities from Somanlia, bin Laden was watching and deduced that we were a "paper tiger." And during the Afghan war, prisoners said even if the whole world were made of Muslim countries, they would attack places like Pakistan, a quasi-dictatorship / democracy (?) to make them "good muslims." They abound in countries around the world, even in the Phillipines where their initial goal was assuredly not the destruction of the United States. Their goal is simply a worldwide Afghanistan; we are in their way.

    Next paragraph, which I dun even know why its there. The reason we didn't sign up in the International Criminal Court is because it doesn't afford the rights and protections that most of our citizens treasure. Point is, the U.S. believes that you are more legitimately protected in American courts than by European courts. We are truly innocent until proven guilty in this country, and if the courts say we're guilty then there are endless appeals you can go through. We don't have a perfect system, but its better than most. But you cannot apply these rights and priviledges in protection of Saddam Hussein. He is guilty.
    Our military always recruits, just a fact of life here. And I'm not sure what that anecdote about our servicemen in Afghanistan means. Maybe we're not as good as we think? Maybe that we need you too?
    The U.S. definition of victory is a high one. During the Korean war, we nearly had a 1000:1 kill ratio. During the last gulf war, the stats may have been as high as 500:1. Even though we withdrew from Vietnam, we still managed to kick ass. I wouldn't use our own military prowess against us. War is hell, its chaos once the battle begins and most generals know it. The reason that we stress not having allies cooperate in battles is because of the problems we have coordinating different countries' forces. And, other countries' technology, with few notable exceptions, tends to be antiquated.
    The problem with nuclear weapons is if Israel is hit or Turkey is hit, we will be involved and so will the whole MidEast. Look at the situation with North Korea and place it in Iraq. Not pretty.

    The FBI has stopped at least a 100 plots according to the Justice Department. They just don't let us know about every one. And your right, we had one major attack that cost three thousand lives, more than the IRA ever took in their whole campaign of terror. Plz, dont belittle those who died.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Mar 23, 2003 at 09:03 AM
    No matter what the reteric that U pronounce, there is still no firm link betweet bin Laden and Saddam. The fact stands that both surport suicide bombers, as does Yasser, and Gaddafi and a whole host of others,will U still go after them? It is a long bow to draw for your oil barron President so he will now have controll over a great number of wells. So where to next, Iran, Lybia, Turkey, Jordan and Saudi allsurported Iraqu in some way, why not go after them, or will he have the guts to face North Korea? I dout it.
    U seem to wonder why so many other countrys and peoples are opposed to the USA inposeing there will on the rest of the world, point in fact, at the last election in Panamah the people were told if a certain democratic candidate was voted in the US would withdraw all aid, the other candidate was a known "patsy" of the CIA. This is one example of the reasons ppl around the world have had enough of the US. What seems to be forgotten is that Sadam was put in power by the USA, bin Laden was a paid opperative of the CIA, the leader ship in Iran was placed by the CIA, do I need to go on?
    You talk about Saudi Arabia trying to enbrace democracy, Did U know that the only non military planes in the sky on sep 12, after the WTC was planes sanctioned by Bush to pick up Saudi citizans, FACT. At the end of the day, who are U to inpose democracy on another, do they want it, will it work for them, did U ask them? Dont get me wrong, I am in favor of democracy, but if the ppl of a country dont have it, do U have the right to force it on them? The terrorists view is for a world wide Afganistan U say, the bigest problem the Muslim extreamists have is a lack of surport from other branches of Islam, which has the same problems as Democrecy, Christian based leaderships and any other form of rule U can care to mention, that same problem is Mankind, and our weakness'. There goes peace out the window.
    U say the reason the USA didnt sigh up for the criminal court is because it dosent aford rights etc etc. Tell me what rights do ur prisoners in camp Xray have, none. Do they have access to a lawyer, NO, do they have a right to a fair trial, NO. They were captured during a war, dosent matter what else U want to call it, but ur country wont even afford them their rights under the Genevier Convention. The real reason the USA wont sigh up is because they are guilty of war crimes, so please pull ur head out of the sand and have a good look around. Have a look at a President who cant keep his dick in his pants, has oral with a worker and says its not sex, please dont insult my inteligence, even if I cant spell, or ur current President, who has his mates in the courts change the election rules so he can win, a rigged election, a man who cant even answer questions straight when asked by a jornilist.
    As for your millitary, U lost more to friendly fire in the Balkins then killed by the enemy, did U know U have troops in Macadonia?, why did U need to use depleted urainiam in Yugoslavia, except to stuff the country side, so far you have killed nearly 20 British troops in Iraq. Dont worry bout the enemy, worry bout ur allies if ur fighting with the Yanks was our motto in the forces. How many convoys or weddings will U blow up this time I wonder, or will U hit another embassy. Its funny how when ur plane got taken out for spying over China U all shat urselfs, the troops must be treated as POWs it was stated, but U werent at war then.
    The FBI claims to have stoped 100 plots?, prove it.
    DC's Avatar .
    DC spoke on Mar 23, 2003 at 01:12 PM
    The Iraqi war has started...but I'll continue just b'cause its a Sunday and there's nothing else to do.

    I never said there was a connection, I just said there was no idealogical barrier to them working together. And, there are criminal regimes and we attack them on our own terms depending on whats in our own best interests. That there are more criminal regimes than we are attacking does not at all lessen the legitimacy of an action in Iraq.

    I defer to a prominent Oxford historian for an explanation on the use of the Geneva Convention in this situation and why its application is questionable:

    "Maintaining a strict distinction between lawful combatants (conscripts, professionals, militiamen and resistance fighters) and unlawful combatants (such as bandits and terrorists) not only protects the dignity of real soldiers, it safeguards civilians. By defining who can be subject to violence and capture, the horror of war is...focused away from civilians and limited to those willing put themselves in the line of fire.
    ...In addition to the legal and military practicalities, there is an obvious moral danger in setting the precedent that captured terrorists are soldiers. Not only does that elevate Mohammad Atta from a calculating murderer into a combatant, it puts the IRA, ETA and the Red Brigades on a par with the Marine Corps and the French Resistance."

    Legitimizing these groups could increase the legal and practical problems countries around the world have in defending against these groups. You should read the whole report. Theres a lot to it.

    Depleted uranium doesns't do anything, its depleted. Its also used to line our Abrams tanks for protection. Its radioactivity is less than radioactivity naturally found in nature. And, its fortunate we kill more of our own soldiers than the enemy. If 20 have been killed so far by friendly fire, would you want 100 of our own soldiers to be killed by the enemy to somehow justify the conflict? I don't really see your point. War is chaos, and any general will tell you that once the conflict begins, you cannot micro-manage the battle. You have to coordinate the best you can beforehand.

    So, your arguement against the FBI is in fact a non-arguement? I'd rather listen to the FBI than an anonymous, anti-American internet poster with a grudge against the U.S.
    alhama's Avatar .
    alhama spoke on Apr 07, 2003 at 11:24 PM
    When Saddam Hussein refused to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq, the United States said that he was developing weapons of mass destruction. When he allowed the inspectors in, he was now deceiving them. Iraq did surrender, it has complied with the conditions set out by the UN. The UN knows this and has demonstrated that even with US support, it is too ineffectual/cowardly/unable/whatever to enforce its decision. The UN's authority as a peacekeeping organization is limited to its ability to enforce its decisions, so it has proved that it is a paper tiger, and I don't see how it should be allowed to hold the US back. Just because the UN and Clinton allowed Saddam to slide for the past decade doesn't mean it should continue.
    Let me tell you why Middle-Eastern and European countries won't support the US in this war. First, there is no EVIDENCE. If you took the evidence presented to a court, you'd be thrown out before you even stepped in. You can't wage war just because you think he has them. The fact is, the UN didn't find any, and neither has the US from all its intelligence gathering trips. Third world countries, like Libya and Ethuania are supporting this war, because the US has threatened to stop its foreign aid to these countries. The only other power supporting the US, is Britain. The world is against the US in this war, and if not, they have been bullied into joining the coalition of the willing.
    Also, the double standards that exist within the US foreign policy is probably why the Middle-East won't support America. Israel won't comply with any UN resolutions that are passed, it REFUSES to allow weapons inspectors into their country, and it CONSTANTLY KILLS civilians. Israel has even killed Americans. Why should a war be waged on Iraq based on circumstancial evidence when hardcore evidence exists with Israel?
    In trying to 'disarm' Iraq, sanctions on medicine and food were put into place through the UN, and they killed more than 1.5 million civilians. Look at both sides of the story before you jump and agree with this war, or any war for that matter.
    Why is America so keen to disarm Iraq now? When Iraq invaded Kuwait (like the invasion of Palestine by Israel), the US refused to condemn Iraq, and it refused to decrease trade or diplomatic relations with Iraq, in fact diplomatic ties were increased in this period.
    It is essential to know the historical content that goes with this. You should look at this history, instead of just regurgitating what the media has told you.
    harrisonface's Avatar .
    harrisonface spoke on Apr 09, 2003 at 12:24 AM
    what the fuck are you talking about asshole! he obviuosely has his shit together! where's your article?
    alhama's Avatar .
    alhama spoke on Apr 09, 2003 at 05:02 AM
    When Saddam Hussein refused to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq, the United States said that he was developing weapons of mass destruction. When he allowed the inspectors in, he was now deceiving them. Iraq did surrender, it has complied with the conditions set out by the UN.
    Let me tell you why Middle-Eastern and European countries won't support the US in this war. First, there is no EVIDENCE. If you took the evidence presented to a court, you'd be thrown out before you even stepped in. You can't wage war just because you think he has them. The fact is, the UN didn't find any, and neither has the US from all its intelligence gathering trips. Third world countries, like Libya and Ethuania are supporting this war, because the US has threatened to stop its foreign aid to these countries. The only other power supporting the US, is Britain. The world is against the US in this war, and if not, they have been bullied into joining the coalition of the willing.
    Also, the double standards that exist within the US foreign policy is probably why the Middle-East won't support America. Israel won't comply with any UN resolutions that are passed, it REFUSES to allow weapons inspectors into their country, and it CONSTANTLY KILLS civilians. Israel has even killed Americans. Why should a war be waged on Iraq based on circumstancial evidence when hardcore evidence exists with Israel?
    In trying to 'disarm' Iraq, sanctions on medicine and food were put into place through the UN, and they killed more than 1.5 million civilians. Look at both sides of the story before you jump and agree with this war, or any war for that matter.
    Why is America so keen to disarm Iraq now? When Iraq invaded Kuwait (like the invasion of Palestine by Israel), the US refused to condemn Iraq, and it refused to decrease trade or diplomatic relations with Iraq, in fact diplomatic ties were increased in this period.
    It is essential to know the historical content that goes with this. You should look at this history, instead of just regurgitating what the media has told you.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Apr 13, 2003 at 11:59 AM
    intelligent reply. (plz note sarcasm)

    the doom and gloom scenario didn't really play out though did it?
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Apr 13, 2003 at 12:09 PM
    most of the points you made are so bogus , they aren't worth refuting. one of the main things i do agree with you on, is that you can't spell worth a damn=P
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on May 01, 2003 at 06:10 PM
    Did you know that the only building the U.S. soldiers took care to guard was the OIL MINISTRY? Instead of guarding museums, hospitals, and other areas, they chose to guard oil buildings. Also, I think everyone believes that "Thou shall not kill" is a quote to follow. It doesn't matter what religion you are. In general, people accept that idea. Well, how can you have reputed Christians, Muslims, etc. who support this war? They are going against everything they believe in which makes them hypocritical. Why can't people believe in a pure angel by the name of peace? Please people don't listen to the media and news all the time and take everything it says for granted. Have you noticed how many few civilian pictures they have shown with Iraqi children dead or injured? All they show are the U.S. troops. Have you noticed how four or five journalists have died while trying to report "real" news? Doesn't that seem suspicious 2 u? The government of our country wants us to believe that this war is moral and is helping the citizens. When the statue of Hussein fell, a U.S. flag was briefly put up. Now J. Garner has been put in place to rule the country. He is friends with Ariel Sharon, the leader of the Jewish state Israel. Garner dislikes Palestinians. Can you not see the conflict this would bring to the Muslims of Iraq? Something else...The looting....the loss of precious artifacts which the U.S. had been told 3 months prior to the war would be stolen. The U.S. obviously did not care. Our history has been cheated! Our brothers and sisters have died! Face it...the government lies, and it's so disappointing and saddening to see how it does so. I have learned one lesson from all this...History does repeat itself no matter what anyone says. There are dictators always. There are greedy people forever. I will not believe the U.S. is being kind to liberate the Iraqi people. They entered the war with hardly any evidence. In America we say, Innocent till proven guilty. Iraq had no connection with September 11. They were just someone to blame. We have nuclear weapons. Israel, in the Middle East, has nuclear weapons. Why can't Iraq? What if someone else in another country saw Bush as a terrorist? Could he just come and take over the whole country...? No. I ask you to think about other people's opinions respectfully as I would yours...I leave you with one of God's sayings : "Blessed are the peacemakers."
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on May 02, 2003 at 02:53 AM
    Your post shows a huge lack of knowledge

    Let me begin:

    "Did you know that the only building the U.S. soldiers took care to guard was the OIL MINISTRY?"

    The oil revenue is Iraq's only hope of quickly rebuilding its torn nation. The US did not know that the looting would take place on such a large scale due to imperfect knowledge.

    "Also, I think everyone believes that "Thou shall not kill" is a quote to follow. It doesn't matter what religion you are. In general, people accept that idea. Well, how can you have reputed Christians, Muslims, etc. who support this war? They are going against everything they believe in which makes them hypocritical."

    So in other words, you are saying that it is alright for Saddam to kill his own people as long as you have nothing to do with it. I think the "thou shall not kill" thing has to do with INTENTIALLY killing people who do nothing to you. Iraqi soldiers are combatants, the civilians who were killed were accidents, as there are in any way. It would be hypocritical to ignore Saddam killing his people, than trying to prevent it.

    "Have you noticed how many few civilian pictures they have shown with Iraqi children dead or injured? All they show are the U.S. troops."

    You obviously have a select media service if you fail to see the civilian casualties as well. Here, in the Middle East, they show nothing BUT Iraqi Civilian casualties.

    "Have you noticed how four or five journalists have died while trying to report "real" news? Doesn't that seem suspicious 2 u? "

    No it doesn't. Another foobie posted this before but - when you try to get the "real" news by going into unauthorised areas, holding a video camera which looks like a missile launcher, then obviously you are going to be targetted for the risk it looks like you pose.

    "Now J. Garner has been put in place to rule the country. He is friends with Ariel Sharon, the leader of the Jewish state Israel. Garner dislikes Palestinians."

    He is there to temporarily rule so as to bring order to the country. If he is friends with Sharon, so what? It seems you have some issues with Israel. If Garner dislikes Palestinians, that is his own choice - he is going to be in Iraq - not Palestine. The muslims there will have to choose between chaos in their country or a temporary leader who, according to you, dislikes Palestinians.

    "Our history has been cheated! Our brothers and sisters have died!"

    There was the cheating of history in Iraq. Your brothers and sisters were dying way before this war started.

    "Iraq had no connection with September 11."

    That has yet to be seen.

    "We have nuclear weapons. Israel, in the Middle East, has nuclear weapons. Why can't Iraq?"

    One key difference; Iraq was not a democracy - the ability of the country to launch anything was dependent on one person who did not care about anything or anyone else other than himself. Israel and the US have nukes, yes, but are they willing to use them indiscriminantly? No.

    "I leave you with one of God's sayings : "Blessed are the peacemakers." "

    If there is a god who is so powerful and whatever, he would have stopped this war before it had begun. If he didn't want to show himself or whatever, then he would definately support Bush over Saddam anyday.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jun 04, 2005 at 09:13 PM
    MIDDLE EASTERN MONARCHIES SHOULD BE OVERTHROWN AT ALL COSTS? WTF!?!?
    Just becuase their system is different than yours doesn't mean its evil!
    The states and Saudi Arabia have been buddies for a long time, they have a King. Why would you want to bump off your buddies unless its to get to something that lines your pockets - oil.
    Jebus help me!
    Besides, a king by any other name is still a king.
    The usa is just a slightly democratic monarchy - it comes from trying to make the change from under a monarchist rule to becoming a democracy in such a small ammount of time. Instead of having a hereditary king or queen you took your military and political leaders, stuck them on a pedestal with laurell in their hair, gave them full power over your nation, and called them presidents... becuase, of course, this new nation was the home of the brave and the land of the free, the subjegated, the slaves, and the native americans (but they really didn't count. after all, they weren't considered PEOPLE back them)
    So, in effect, you could just quit with the 'mr president' shenanigans and just call ol Georgie junior King George III.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jun 04, 2005 at 09:25 PM
    Why are they so willing to kill and die? Do they get urine and blood and shit and body parts on the koran when they strap on a bomb and walk into a rival sects mosk and blow everything up? Is that considered abuse of Holy stuff? Fuck them and let us prevail!
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jun 04, 2005 at 09:47 PM
    Obviously those foolish heathens know absolutely nothing about a commode! If they had any first hand knowledge about toilets they would know that it is physically impossible to "flush"a fucking book down a toilet! These animals have never even seen a commode or toilet paper because they just pull up that filthy night shirt and shit wherever they are and then wipe their ass with their hand. Nasty motherfucking faggots.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jun 05, 2005 at 08:39 PM
    Ragheads wipe that shitty hand on that filthy nightshirt
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jun 06, 2005 at 09:25 PM
    tent monkeys, rock chuckers, swine fuckers, islamofaggots

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