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    Evolution vs. Creationism
    Posted by Leptictitious on Oct 01, 2002 at 07:50 AM

    Comments

    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 09:19 AM
    Holy Shit
    This Guy is Insanely correct!
    Extremely Great Read!!
    NateMayhem's Avatar .
    NateMayhem spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 12:12 PM
    I'm sure you've said what you wanted to say, and said it well, but I'd only like to point out you've said absolutly nothing new. I look forward to each week's feature and expect something that will either enteratain me or give me somethign to think about, but what I've found here we've all heard so many times before. It's easy, not to mention stylish, to bash religion and the crazies who will support every word in the Bible untill the day they die. What's harder is to concider the idea that science does not necessarily destroy God nor vice versa and to understand how they can complement each other. I'm not here to force or even state my beliefs, but I do think that discussion would prove far more interesting and fresh than hearing somebody reiterate my 10th grade biology class. Again.
    holyjuan's Avatar .
    holyjuan spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 12:31 PM
    Was this the 10th grade biology class you took last year? State your beliefs. You don't need to stand up for your beliefs around here, but at least bend your knees a little. Science destroys God or God created science. Take your pick.

    Oh, can I throw my socks in your beliefs? The wishy-washy should get them really really white.
    RickySilk's Avatar .
    RickySilk spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 12:39 PM
    I don't mean to be an instigator, but I've filed that wishy-washy bit away for future use.
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 06:42 PM
    Actually this wasn't intended to be a feature teaching you the secrets of the universe, sorry, but it's just an editorial with my thoughts. Notice the last line. As a matter or fact I am not bashing religions in gerneral. I'm a very religios person, but not christian. I attend a Catholic school (dont know why)! Im just pointing out the facts of the matter. Some sites to look at now....
    [link] insanely funny in that it answers questions with not answers, but minor faults in evolution.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 10:33 PM
    Just because you have heard it all before does not make it invalid. There are people out there besides yourself, Nate.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 10:42 PM
    "Science destroys God or God created science. Take your pick"

    Neither.... False dichotomy. Poor logic. If it were all black or white, true or false, we would not need the courts to interpret the laws. While y'all are on your knees there.... uh, never mind....
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 01, 2002 at 10:48 PM
    This is an article that really makes you think! I know I will start looking at things a "little different now". Where this will take me I do not know.

    Well written!
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 01:20 PM
    I feel often that people try to force me to stand on one side of the religious fence or the other. I did not feel that at all about this article. It was honest ponderances that many people feel. I came to the the conclusion that I was a Christian, although an extremely odd one. If you can't believe that other powers exist, evolution is possible or that we all worry entirely too much about this crap, then you don't think Christain like me. I read and I asked and the answer I found was in the Bible, it said all things are possible. Not all the within your understanding, or you interpretable thoughts, or all that sound like a magical hand makes the world turn-ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. That means science, arcane gods, anything are far as I'm concerned. I don't normally tell people my religious views, I suppose this writing has made me bold today. Furtherly I beleive that tolerance of people, beliefs and opinions is what should be highest law no matter your religion or lack of. Something to think on however, a question I think often, we aren't perfect, so how can anything we create be perfect? Including attempts at understanding a perfect being, we can only see so far as our understanding takes us.
    holyjuan's Avatar .
    holyjuan spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 01:41 PM
    Listen here Captain Grey- it is all black and white. It's your (and my) opinions, beliefs, blah blah blah that turn it grey. The only uncertainties are the ones that we can't figure out/create bedtime stories for. And who the hell said that the courts determine anything? You poor home schooled freak. What, you weren't home schooled? You miscreant of the public school system. Private school, eh? You fish eating pathetic... not Catholic? Cripes, just keep writing so I can have a good laugh.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 03:19 PM
    Beware the wrath of the Cozmo, for he is subtle and quick to anger...
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 03:32 PM
    holyjuan: Your comment doesn't warrant a response. And it is Cozmo with a Z.
    holyjuan's Avatar .
    holyjuan spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 05:02 PM
    If it doesn't warrent a response, Cosmo, then why did you respond?
    holyjuan's Avatar .
    holyjuan spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 05:05 PM
    ...and I mispel words so that I fit in.
    guitari2600's Avatar .
    guitari2600 spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 10:12 PM
    very well put daydreamtime.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 02, 2002 at 10:18 PM
    Hey Doug,
    I am happy that you want to fit in. Now quit being such a dick.
    holyjuan's Avatar .
    holyjuan spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 10:14 AM
    OK Cosmo. Let me get this straight. You have somehow decided to use my real name in a community where there lives at least a little fog of anonymity. Is this a threat?

    I would hate to think that my simple verbal jabs could cause you to break whatever unwritten code of honor any website could have.

    Now if you are some kick ass hacker who wears samurai swords and have found me through devious hacker means, I apologize, you are really smart and handsome (or pretty) and please don’t fuck with my computer. But I do not think that you are that smart.

    How ever you got my name is your business. The fact that you decided to use it in you post is bullshit. I don’t know you and let’s keep it that way.

    How much confidence is there in a website when meager folks don’t want to speak their minds because they fear retribution? I would hate to see this website lose traffic because someone pushed you on the playground.

    I am a dick, Cosmo. I like to mix it up and laugh at idiots. I’d like to continue to do so. But, if you can’t take it, please tell me so and I’ll bail. I don’t like the idea of you electronically creeping around through my extensive collection of The Cure MP3s and photos of Alyssa Milano.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 10:50 AM
    With all due respect to RickySilk and this site, I do not have access, nor does anyone else, to your identity. It was strictly word of mouth and had absolutely NOTHING TO DO with Kungfoo. If I crossed a line, I apologize. It was my way of saying 'Back off".
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 11:58 AM
    Hi, I'm Lindsey, aka daydreamtime, I sign crap all over the internet and get called a lot of names. It makes no differences which one you call me, it's my choice if I answer by it, though. *hehehe* And thanks guitari2600.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 12:25 PM
    My HolyJuan, you seem to be very angry, where does this come from? Believe me, I can get very angry, but I try to determine where my anger is coming from so that negativity does not sap the energy I could be using to oh... I don't know, have fun?

    Lindsey/daydreamtime, I think your beliefs are beautiful and eloquent, thank you for expressing what I have had a hard time finding words for.

    As far as beliefs in general go, I think people forget that beliefs are individual. You (the collective "you" not anyone in particular) have the right to believe, or not believe, as you choose. You have the right to sit on the fence! You even have the right to attempt to force me to accept your beliefs. Good luck with that though...............
    DutchGirl's Avatar .
    DutchGirl spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 12:36 PM
    Damn! I wrote the last comment...... forgot to log in. I'm no Anonymous Coward!
    Lin-Z's Avatar .
    Lin-Z spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 12:40 PM
    Hmmm, it's quite easy to pass judgment behind the veil of an anon, isn't it? Personally, I had no idea people were so testy about names & identities. I also wouldn't constitute that as an unwritten code of honor. This is (to some extent. goddamn anons !!! ) a pretty tight knit little community & it's all done in fun. Your beliefs are who you are. What difference does your name make?
    Impervious to Satire's Avatar .
    Impervious to Satire spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 01:35 PM
    PEOPLE ARE USING THE INTER-NET FOR ANONYMOUS SLANDER ???

    GASP

    (Welcome to the internet.)
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 02:30 PM
    Thank you everyone for your comments! I appreciate the insight. Someone should write a part 2. Supporting the creationism side. It is always cool to see both sides of the argument. Well, I have to go. Ironically I have Christian Ethics class in about 10 minutes. Later.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 04:00 PM
    Hm how do you animate your avatars? It looks really good - esp. yours DutchGirl
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 05:59 PM
    Anyone who believes in evoloution, please contact me with ONE thing evoloution states that you know to be absoutly true? What is a Theory? A theory is something that can be true at times, and false at other times. As of what science has found so far about evoloution(which is nothing), The "Theory of Evoloution", is merely just a hypothesis! If anyone finds me to be wrong, or if I need to be corrected, please do so! And oh yeah, Evoloution states that the world is evolving to be more powerful and stuff, but Einstien clearly states in the theory of reletivity, that the more and more of the amount of evergy, is becoming unusable. How does that work into your little "hypothesis of evoloution"? And the more and more science actualy finds out to be fact, the Bible had stated already. If you are intrested in this, then you should really look into it. There is alot more that what is being stated.
    burn2shine's Avatar .
    burn2shine spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 06:12 PM
    In the immortal words of Eminem pollscrewer:

    "Pass the KY and get ready for some serious ass-fucking!"

    Don't worry though, I'll only jump in to kick you when you are down. :)
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 06:38 PM
    You should really get your terms straight.
    A hypothesis is "A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation. "
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition [link]


    Evolution is not a hypothesis, or a theory, it is a FACT.

    Quoted from the Scientific American [link] :

    "Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses." No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth.

    In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as "an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as 'true.'" The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

    All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists' conclusions less certain. "
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 06:57 PM
    And I believe that you are talking about the second law of thermo dynamics (entropy), not the Theory of Relativity.

    Again from the Scientific American :

    "This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.
    The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.



    The Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials."

    ...and stuff. (sorry I couldn't help it ;) )
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 07:22 PM
    And actually this is not so much an argument about evolution and creation as much as it is an epistemological argument. Creationists necessitate the belief that there are absolutes, black and white where science states that we cannot know anything for sure (absolutely).

    Even statistics states in measuring most phenomena that the results will resemble the bell curve. It also states that there is always going to be a margin of error while making scientific observations. "Margin of error is what statisticians call a confidence interval. What that mean is that a margin of error is a 95 percent confidence interval that for every 20 times you repeat this poll, statistics say that one time you'll get an answer that is completely off the wall. " [link]


    "Science does not assume it knows the truth about the empirical world a priori. Science assumes it must discover its knowledge. Those who claim to know empirical truth a priori (such as so-called scientific creationists) cannot be talking about scientific knowledge. Science presupposes a regular order to nature and assumes there are underlying principles according to which natural phenomena work. It assumes that these principles or laws are relatively constant. But it does not assume that it can know a priori either what these principles are or what the actual order of any set of empirical phenomena is.

    A scientific theory is a unified set of principles, knowledge, and methods for explaining the behavior of some specified range of empirical phenomena. Scientific theories attempt to understand the world of observation and sense experience. They attempt to explain how the natural world works." [link]

    Basically science states the laws of mathematics states that there is ALWAYS a statistical chance that it may be wrong.

    Science posits that a scientist that speaks of the order of the universe in absolute terms is practicing bad science while a creationist state that a scientist who doesn't speak in absolute terms is practicing bad science.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 08:55 PM
    Ok. So i get my laws and names mixed up. I just did biology, I didn't take Science as my colege degree. And also, with your proof of evoloution, where is it? you said fossils that show it. Like in walls, where the bottom creature is simpl and the top creature is more complex. If you can actualy find that anywhere, take a picture of it and send it to me. Don't get it from a text book, cause thats the only place I have found them to exist. And if you do find it in the wall, somewhere, walk down the wall farther and you will also notice(if you chose to) that you will find the same organisms, in a diffrent order. And I'd also like to know how you people are coming up with the billions of years shit. Where do you have some proof of that?
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 09:03 PM
    And one more thing before I am accused of contradicting myself, I need to differentiate between science and the order of the universe itself (that which science seeks to understand). Science states that there is an underlying order to the universe. What science seeks to do is understand and explain that order using the scientific method. What science does not claim to be is the truth. There are facts and laws in science. There are things such as scientific facts that have withstood scrutiny, experimentation and debate, and have been deemed to be “true” by the virtue of such scrutiny, experimentation and debate. In other words the argument (explanation) stands by it’s own merits and there has been no other explanation that has been more conclusive than the current understanding of said matter.

    What religion and henceforth creationists claim is that they know the absolute truth and that there is no other explanation. I.e. “We are not, and cannot be wrong on this matter”. What science says is, “look we are human, and we are failable. We might be wrong on this but this theory/law/fact has withstood scrutiny, experimentation and debate and stands on it’s own merits.


    ...and stuff.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 09:41 PM
    “I didn't take Science as my colege degree”
    Are you still in high school?

    What walls are you talking about? There not some place where you walk down a wall of evolution with displays saying "this is a dinosaur" and "this is a Neanderthal man". Yes I do know what you are saying, but you need to be clearer. Think about the point you want to make and state it clearly.

    "And also, with your proof of evoloution, where is it".

    The fossil record. There is no "proof' of evolution. There is evidence. Overwhelming evidence.


    "And I'd also like to know how you people are coming up with the billions of years shit. Where do you have some proof of that?"

    What about that 6,000 year "shit"? Where is proof of that other than the Bible says it I believe it and that settles it.

    There is no proof/ evidence outside of the Bible that the earth is not billions of years old.

    “And if you do find it in the wall, somewhere, walk down the wall farther and you will also notice(if you chose to) that you will find the same organisms, in a diffrent order.” Please explain this question more clearly and I will answer it.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 10:18 PM
    There is also no proof of it being billions of years old. What i meant by the wall thing, is the levels of land. Like there is a layyer "800 billion years old", then another on top of it that is "500 billion years old", and so on and so fourth. And yeah, I'm only in 10th grade.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 10:34 PM
    I am not trying to be a dick but I am confused and I am really trying to understand your question"

    "Like in walls, where the bottom creature is simpl and the top creature is more complex. If you can actualy find that anywhere, take a picture of it and send it to me. Don't get it from a text book, cause thats the only place I have found them to exist. And if you do find it in the wall, somewhere, walk down the wall farther and you will also notice(if you chose to) that you will find the same organisms, in a diffrent order. "

    Please ask it again in a differnt manner. Seriously... I want to understand.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 10:45 PM
    you said you have fossil evidence of evolouting occuring. What is it?
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 03, 2002 at 11:02 PM
    Let me look in my closet.....
    Iceman's Avatar .
    Iceman spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 12:34 AM
    Common logic dictates that if the passing of genetic traits exists, evolution must follow. It's a simple chain of conclusions. Organisms have DNA. That is proven to be so. Through DNA, organisms pass on genetic traits to their offspring. Sometimes, very rarely, there is an anomoly in an organism's genetic makeup. A mutation. Ever seen someone with six fingers? Two different colored eyes? That's a genetic mutation. While neither of those traits seem very useful, imagine the advantage of an opposable thumb. A grasping tail. The ability for complex thought. As these traits (more specifically, the gene responsible for these traits--an organism can be a carrier and not possess the trait) get passed on, they give these organisms a better chance for survival, and reproduction, than their peers. Over the course of millions of years, these kinds of changes will shape a species. Evolution is a simple, indisputable concept. Whether God planned it that way, I can't say. But to argue that it doesn't happen is simply a waste of time.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 01:04 AM
    Sorry, but I like Space Ghost. I have already stated my opinion on other things. I just had to call attention to the fact I like that icon. Other than that, there were some well stated points here and some not so well stated points. Alas, I've just said nothing and used quite a bit of words for it.
    Iceman's Avatar .
    Iceman spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 01:26 AM
    thankya.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 10:36 AM
    2 words: adaptive radiation
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 10:38 AM
    This excerpt explains this issue nicely

    Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?

    In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined.

    [link]
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 02:39 PM
    >you said you have fossil evidence of evolouting occuring. What is it?

    I am not going to do for you what you can do for yourself. If there is a library or a college or university library, go there and look it up. Look for evolution and/or fossil record. If they offer key words for the books that you find during your search, use them as well to refine your search.

    Or go ask your teacher if s/he could recommend some reading material for you.

    It is not my area of expertise and I really don't feel the need to do the leg work for you. But I will give you a head start:
    [link]
    [link]
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 06:45 PM
    Who thought....all these intelligent people...at Kung Foo. Evolutionists! Very valid points. Creationists....problems with evelution are not answers to creationisim. I suggest the evolutionists take their turn asking questions to creationists.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 06:49 PM
    I'll go first:

    How come you hold genesis as an account of god's creating things. We wouldn't have had written language at the time! Don't even try saying god told people.
    Also, how come christians will say a person is possesed- But in every other religion and ethnic culture...they call it schitzophrenia?
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 07:27 PM
    Why did he make mosqitoes? How did god create the atom? Why does the bible make refrence to the belief that the earth was flat~ (It speaks of four corners of the earth.) What about the more than 100 contraditions in the bible? How did the writers of Geneisis know what happened? If god did indeed tell them, why would he not tell them the shape of the earth? If god wanted to send Jesus to find out what it was like to be man and feel human suffering, why would he give him special abilities...such as the abilitie to go without eating for fourty days? Is it proper or even justifiable for Christians to say that the other 5.2 billion people in the world are all going to a firey doom in hell?

    The idea of a god is no less primative and about as proven as the myths of ancient greece. And yet the bible says they are wrong.

    There was this guy a while back, I think his name was Galileo. He was brought to court by the church and prosecuted for his beliefs. He was forced to say in front of an entire hall of people that he retracts his discoveries and that the earth is a motionless body. When he left the court he said under his breathe.

    "and yet it moves."

    Wow...
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 07:40 PM
    Oh Shat! Now it's on mutha @%#$*&!

    -Okay, that was inapropriate.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 08:41 PM
    As an odd Christian who got brave, I will answer questions best fit to my understanding. As I believe in God and evolution and my great inability to spell/type this should be fun. As an added note, I have poor grammar skills. It says Adam and Eve were the first people God created, not the only ones. It never says he didn't make more afterwards. If we evolve from more primitive people, then it means we were more like little children once compared to what we are now, so God would use simple terms to explain what he wanted from them. First talking to them like you would a very young child and later when they learned to write, commanding them to write it down. Commanding not asking, like a parent to a child. We are not so perfect as to understand God in full, we would write down his laws to the best of our understanding. The Bible has been rewritten and translated many times. We as an imperfect people could never create something perfect, even if it was for a divine cause. God wanted his son to live among the people, but he also wanted him to lead the people, he had given him gifts to show people his divinity. Would you believe I was the child of any god if I had no way to show you? Jesus could have if had chosen to do so been like anyone, at his death he could have asked God to spare him, but he did not, he accepted suffering. I don't know how to explain what I mean, could you convince a caveman the ground he was standing on is round? He spoke to us, we accepted it to the best of our limited understanding. It clearly states, he is not the only influence in this world. Mosquitos? He may have created them harmless, but what have they evolved to? If we started out as innocent people unaware of our own nakedness, what have we became? I think evolution and creation are the same, 1 million years could be but a day to something that is infinite. Like I said before, I believe all things are possible. I know I cannot answer all the questions, but I don't science has an explaination for every single thing either. It all fits together somewhere, but I respect your opinions. I answered your questions to the very best of my ability at this current time. That's all anyone can do, make the best decision they know how to at the time.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 08:44 PM
    "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I confess, absurd in the highest degree."
    Charles Darwin
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 09:12 PM
    hmph, I guess Darwin didn't know either. lol
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 04, 2002 at 11:38 PM
    Whats wrong with the mosquitos? Have you seen any evoloution take place? And daydream says something about 1 day being possible 1 million years or something. In the original old testiment, they used the word that signifies 24 hours. This word was ....something, that i can't remember. but it meant 24 hours. And the "mutations" as mentioned earlier, have you seen anyone with a mutation that was to their benefit? I've seen people with 6 toes, no hand, people who can't walk, and many more. I haven't seen one that was to their benefit. None at all. How did God create the Atom? Why don't you ask him? I'm not sure how he did it. It says in the Bible that he said stuff, and it became. So I would suppose that means he spoke of it happening, and it did. now I have a question for you, how did "nothing" create the atom? it evolved from nothing? Hmm.....doesn't seem very scientific. The chance of us all being formed by chance? Do you know what the chance of that happening actualy is? I can't give you actual numbers, but I can tell you that it is very extremely close to impossible. If I can find a text book that I have here somewhere, I will quote some sayings from evoloutionists. They are actualy not helping in the belief of evoloution at all. What are some other things you asked me? Oh yeah, where do you find in the Bible that the world is flat? And about these 100 contridictory things. Give me a couple of them.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 12:18 AM
    Just because Darwin made the initial steps in stating some theories does not make him an expert on it.

    "As an odd Christian who got brave, I will answer questions best fit to my understanding. As I believe in God and evolution and my great inability to ..."

    Man evolved, man realized he was mortal, man feared death and created religon.

    pollscrewer, your ignorance is amazing. You continue to dispute but make no move to try to find the answers to your questions. We don't need to answer your questions when the answers to them are everywhere on the internet. To answer your questions about layers of soil with fossil records being screwy: Earthquakes. This is something I learned when I was in 8th grade, 3 and a half years ago. You say say you will quote some things evolutionists say? Okay I will quote some things that idiotic moron christians say that make Christianity look stupid. There are idiots on both sides of the fence. Jeez, you say that he mentioned that the bible said the world was flat without backing it up. What about this: Do you know what the chance of that happening actualy is? I can't give you actual numbers, but I can tell you that it is very extremely close to impossible. Where did you read this? Go out and read my friend. Just because we can't explain how an atom was first created does not automatically attribute it to god and a bible written by sexist men.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 12:41 AM
    I do not understand what you are trying to get at. You talk like a drunk man walks, in every direction except for where he is headed. What exactly was your point anyway? To use what I said, for all we know a million years could be one day to an infinite being. I will restate myself yet again, I don't think that they were capable at that time of comprehending infinite time. We are imperfect, anything we here will have our experiences, understanding and limited knowledge to slant it. And as for "out of nothing", do you know the day you became self-aware? When did you comprehend that you "exist"? Why do you even think about existence at all? Isn't that something out of nothing? Why don't you just live on animal instinct, like a rat? Why do you live at all? It doesn't bother me if people want to be atheist, or any other religion. I just stated my beliefs, I'm not trying to cram anything down someone's throat. So, why do you act like I've somehow offended you? Why attack me? It seems that some would think that Christians are the only "creationist" religion that exist. Anyways, I'm not trying to start an argument, I just wish that you would state your point my clearly so that I could better understand what you are trying to say.
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .
    IndigoShaper spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 07:04 AM
    As Jesse Ventura once said - "if people need religion to exist - let them have it" (or something along those lines). I diversity among religions and diversity within religions is a good thing. Although I don't have a religion myself, I like asking tons of questions to my religious friends who end up walking away to research it in their holy book! lol . Anyway I think that people should just accept people's opinions and not get so worked up over it. Unless it affects me directly I do not care what people say, no matter how much I disagree. For those religious people out there - maybe you can answer these questions: Where is God? Why doesn't he show himself? Why is he considered a HE in the first place? Who/What created God? Thats all for now :)
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 11:03 AM
    I will state again that these are only my beliefs....

    Where is God? Why doesn't he show himself? Why is he considered a HE in the first place? Who/What created God?

    Everywhere. He does, you see it and you don't even know it's there. Heaven is going to home to be with him, heaven could be no more than our self awareness going to mingle with the vastness of everyone else's, maybe not, who nows? How would you explain that happiness to a child? How would you explain Jell-o to a person who's never seen anything like it, their imagination would in most cases limit it to something they could compare it to. Do you think 400 years ago people would understand a TV? They's say you were crazy. Probably because people at that time couldn't conceive "him' as anything else, besides if he created Adam in his his image first, Adam is a man, it might be that way, but it's the way we interpret things. For all we know God could be both or neither, but a lot of people just can't imagine that, so the stick to what they can understand. God created himself, what I believe is that "he" became self aware, began to know existence. See, now I've done it...I'm going to get attacked by Christians and everyone else to, probably. All I can say is that we are limited by ourselves, our understanding is limited by our imaginations, I think our greatest "evolution" is our imagination, look at all we have created. Electricity, "fire in a wire". Who would have thought? Once people realized it was possible, they were able to imagine ifinitely new things to do with it, not all of us though. We can't imagine to vastness. Some gods and things may seem very primitive, but who am I to judge it? If you believe you live this life and die and nothing is left beyond that, this is your one shot, that's fine too. If you believe you will come back again in another body or form, who am I to say you are wrong. I believe they all may be true and linked together somehow. I believe I am more than just my body, because I know I am here. If you understand me then that's cool. If you don't, then what can I say? I can't describe the jell-o.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 01:03 PM
    "So I would suppose that means he spoke of it happening, and it did. now I have a question for you, how did "nothing" create the atom? it evolved from nothing? Hmm.....doesn't seem very scientific. "

    Atoms don't evolve (Insert irritated pejorative). You are putting words in out mouths.

    I don't know where the universe came from. I don't think Steven Hawkins knows either. Einstein said something like, “God doesn’t shoot dice”, which I interpret to mean that there is too much order in the universe for it to be random. I tend to agree with this notion and I am still struggling with the relationship of randomness and order.

    It reminds me of a Forest Gump quote:
    “I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floatin' around accidental-like on a breeze. But I, I think maybe it's both, maybe both happening at the same time.”

    This is a very powerful notion.

    I believe the argument here is about how life was created and not the universe. I have no earthly idea where it all came from and personally I am not going to even attempt to answer that question nor am I going to lose any sleep over it. Personally questions like that tend to push people over the edge and I value my mental health ;).

    And I agree with khoury, I am a not about to go hunt down the answers to Pollscrewers questions when he/she can do it him or her self. The solutions to all the contradictions that you point out are freely available on the web and I am not about to bear the burden going out and looking these things up for you. YOU are responsible for you own education. If you choose to only educate yourself with one side of an argument you are going to get your ass kicked every time. No one ever won a war by ignoring the enemy.

    And one more thing… Please site your sources when you are quoting other peoples works. So both side can see if the person is twisting the origial authors words for their own end.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 04:16 PM
    It is easy to find the answers to these questions.

    For example:
    I went to google.com and searched for: “a mutation that was of benefit”
    And this was the third item that came up:
    Can A Duplication Mutation Be Beneficial?
    [link]

    Then I searched using “earth is flat bible” and this was the first link that came up:
    The Bible and the Flat Earth? - ChristianAnswers.Net
    [link]

    These folks say that, no the bible doesn’t say the earth is flat.

    Then these folks say that the bible does say the earth is flat:
    [link]
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 06:17 PM
    I was waiting for someone to bring this up, but guess it's up to me...
    What about the fact that Chimpanzee and Human DNA is 98% identicle?
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 06:24 PM
    Well, being that I stated my opinion, I don't have a reason to site sources, because I only stated my personal beliefs and understandings. Not the answer to everyone's questions, but an answer to why I believe what I believe. I don't really care what anyone else believes. That is their right. I just wish everyone would quit getting angry over the fact that everyone doesn't want to believe what they believe, but that's their right too. Irritating as it may be sometimes.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 07:27 PM
    daydreamtime, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to people who are offering "facts" backing one's argument (i.e. "when you are quoting other peoples works"). Beliefs are just that and one doesn't need to site references for beliefs. People can and will believe anything. I personally, am not angry at anyone. It is just a debate, intellectual stimulus. For me it is a much needed break from thinking in computer languages :).
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 08:04 PM
    Sorry, I didn't mean to sound snappy. I'm in a bad mood, must be getting PMS or something.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 05, 2002 at 11:45 PM
    "What if human and chimp DNA was even 96% homologous? What would that mean? Would it mean that humans could have ‘evolved’ from a common ancestor with chimps? Not at all! The amount of information in the 3 billion base pairs in the DNA in every human cell has been estimated to be equivalent to that in 1,000 books of encyclopaedia size [6]. If humans were ‘only’ 4% different this still amounts to 120 million base pairs, equivalent to approximately 12 million words, or 40 large books of information. This is surely an impossible barrier for mutations (random changes) to cross [7]."
    [link]
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 06, 2002 at 11:56 AM
    "1,000 books of encyclopaedia size"

    The argument is flawed by the very assumptions that it makes. I hardly think that the complete instructions to make a person can be contained in 1,000 books of encyclopedia size. There are millions of tomes in medical libraries dedicated to human physiology, medicine and the like. For examlple “The National Library of Medicine's (NLM) LOCATORplus is a medical catalog library, with more than 5.3 million books, research papers, journals, etc” [link] and medical science is barely scratching the surface of understanding how the human body works, let alone how to make a person.

    Though I am no an expert, I would expect that life’s means of storing information would be incredibly efficient, much more so than the English language. For example, the languages of mathematics and computer programming are incredibly more efficient than the English language in their ability to store instructions and commands. Hence I would wager to say that the human genome would be much more efficient in it’s ability to store instructions and commands than the most efficient mathematical or computer languages. Hence the genome would contain much, much more information than 1,000 books of encyclopedia size.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 06, 2002 at 01:55 PM
    The argument to flawed in other ways to. To say that 1000 encyclopaedia size books is impossible. How? The other 96% was possible, and that amounts to over 24 000 large encyclopaedia size books.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 06, 2002 at 03:08 PM
    It doesn't matter, the only way any of us are going to make a human is probably the old fashioned way and I don't need any instructions for that.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 06, 2002 at 11:27 PM
    Have any of you read Greg Bear's Blood Music? The reason I bring it up is because you mentioned the contents of DNA and the book brings to bare an interesting theory on what is there. Kind of off topic but oh well. ;)
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 06, 2002 at 11:55 PM
    I went and saw GWAR tonight. BOY HOWDY! [link] The only band in the world with a plumbing system. I am one with my inner troglodyte.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 07, 2002 at 02:38 AM
    Good god why? They suck big time.
    DutchGirl's Avatar .
    DutchGirl spoke on Oct 08, 2002 at 05:12 PM
    This debate is simply fascinating. I really enjoy the different viewpoints.... and I really respect people who are willing to state their beliefs, whatever they may be. (Although you do get points for clarity.) During a similar debate, my boyfriend once said "Science is just another religion," and while I'm quite sure I'll get some backlash for it, I think there's a point to that.
    CozmoTrouble's Avatar .
    CozmoTrouble spoke on Oct 08, 2002 at 08:56 PM
    “Science is just another religion”

    That is a good point and in some aspects it is true. I have had formal training in “science”. I worked in a research lab for 2.5 years and have presented my research at academic conferences, etc., etc. There are some in the academic community, i.e. science, that have an agenda, and in my experience I have witnessed a few “scientists” that use “science” to further an agenda. *Cough* Glade Whitney [link] For the most part scientists seek to understand and explain the order of the universe and try to be as impartial as humanly possible. The difference between (good) science and religion is that religion gathers facts to support a preconceived notion of how the world works (dogma) while science gathers facts in order to better understand how the world works, and with ample evidence will amend and/or change its notion of how the world works. Science is forever changing as new understanding sheds light on the matter at hand. What science does not claim is to know the absolute truth. Are there dogmatists in science? Absolutely. That is the exception and not the norm.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 08, 2002 at 10:49 PM
    Pilliars of the earth being shaken....hmm...thats a hard one. Do you think that maybe possible they are talking about the pillers ON the earth? Look at places like rome. They have pillars all over the place. If they were to ever fall, it would be a horrible tragety. And about the DNA. As mentioned earlier, there are tons of bases in the Human DNA. Take a box of Legos, None of them attached to eachother, and if you can make them look even close to a human without toughing the legos. Just by "thinking hard and hoping", maybe they will "magicly" attach.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 08, 2002 at 10:50 PM
    Here is something else. Lets say you are right, ok? When we die, what happens? This is a serious question.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 08, 2002 at 11:22 PM
    Pollscrewer what the hell. Do you actually know what DNA is or how it works? Why are you ignoring what we said before?
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Oct 09, 2002 at 09:34 AM
    What happens when we die? I'll have you know, theology isn't the only type of religion. I am Buddhist. I believe in reincarnation. Suprisingly, Buddhism is in keeping with western science. Many of the ideas support eachother!
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 07:14 AM
    Word. :)
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 01:56 PM
    Yes, I know plenty well what DNA is. I had to do a report on it in Biology. I've even seen it under a microscope. That really has nothing to do with anything. Forget I even said that I've seen it. And you know what? I'm getting sick of this. I have better things to do.
    Iceman's Avatar .
    Iceman spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 02:15 PM
    evidently, making an intelligent reply isn't one of them.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 03:27 PM
    So are you saying that shutting up about the subject and moving on with life isn't an intelligent responce? I'm wasting my time. Youu guys aren't gonna change your mind about it, and I'm not either. So lets just get on with life.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 03:28 PM
    forgot to log-in. I'm the previous Anonymous Coward.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 05:00 PM
    Good for you, we figured that.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 06:25 PM
    Bah I say. Bah.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 06:45 PM
    *sighs* You can state you opinion, but I wouldn't expect to be trying to change anyone elses.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 07:21 PM
    I get my opinions changed all the time, if a sufficiently good argument is given to me. Pollscrew hasn't even come close.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 10, 2002 at 11:00 PM
    Hey guys, is is true that the Bible says the world or universe for that matter is only 6000 years old?
    DutchGirl's Avatar .
    DutchGirl spoke on Oct 11, 2002 at 10:50 AM
    Wow, pollscrewer, you could see DNA under a microscope? I had no idea they were installing multi-million dollar electron microscopes in high schools these days. Argument to expand the scope of ideas is one thing, but arguing just to argue (and badly at that) is annoying. Do some research, get your facts straight, and learn to use proper verbiage before you start pontificating.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Oct 11, 2002 at 10:55 AM
    I do not believe research is his expertise. Though I have to admit, I actually started to snicker when I read "I've even seen it under a microscope. That really has nothing to do with anything. Forget I even said that I've seen it.". He even caught himself. That is true comedy :)
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 11, 2002 at 08:22 PM
    That is pretty funny.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 12, 2002 at 02:33 AM
    well, I think it was DNA. It looked like it. And my Biology teacher said it was, so I believed him. so...hows life everybody?
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 12, 2002 at 02:29 PM
    Hey Pollscrewer, like I said. Is it true the bible says the World or Universe for that matter is only 6000-10 000 years old?
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 12, 2002 at 03:37 PM
    It doesn't say that exactly like that. But as we know, it is 2002 AD meaning after Christ was born. And there are mentions of years that come out to estimate about 4,000 years before Christ. Thats how we come up with the age. but don't hold me to that 100% because I haven't studied it very hard.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 12, 2002 at 09:48 PM
    Yes, actually it does say that, when you trace the people from Adam to Abram all the way down to Joseph and Jesus. The exact family tree states that the earth is 6000 to 10 000 years old. The churches confirm this. I know this because I attend a Catholic school. And I am forced to attend church on Christian holidays by my school. We no that for a fact the earth is not 6000-10 000 years old! Infact, it is a proven fact that the earth is 4.5 billion years old! Pollscrewer, what do you think about this...and the fact of the recent Hominid discovery in south africa. A primate skull with both unique human and ape traits dated 50 million years old. My gosh! Another Missing Link and its older than adam and eve!
    What-Will...We Do-Now. I Can...Only-Think of-the po-ssiblities to come! HAHAHA! Your using the fact that some old fasion people still use AD instead of CE as evidence to Creationism?

    Wow, Pollscrewer, have you ever read the bible? I have, In my school we have to. The more you read the more you see that it is a poorly written-poorly translated story. Sure it has good morals, but so does nearly every other religion.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 13, 2002 at 03:16 AM
    a theory is something that has not been proven, but is widely belived ;)
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 11:07 AM
    Hmm no comment...
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 12:14 PM
    Old skulls are a point well taken, however, one does not have to discount science to have a religion. You can have both, just because I know that people existed millions of years before the Bible was written and understood as best as it could be written and understood by the people existing at that time, doesn't mean that I think I am just a body that is going to die and then I will be nothing.
    dr_taber's Avatar .
    dr_taber spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 04:11 PM
    Very true daydream. I get really sick of people saying you HAVE to choose one way or the other. I wish Christians and every other religion would be more open to ADDING to their religious beliefs without having to replace anything. I mean damn people, the bibles been contradicted before, and everybody made excuses then.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 05:38 PM
    I also totally believe that. BUT LET ME TELL YOU...Not all religions are theologist. Buddhism isn't, infact it's in keeping with western science, more so than any other religion. Daydream, please try to remember-Christianity isnt the only religion.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 06:28 PM
    Found a skull.....hmm. sounds awfully familiar. I remember 2 previously found "missing link" skulls. One turned out to be a grinded down chimpanzee jawbone, the other was something else... I can't remember. I'm having a bad day. and how do you know that your carbon dating is very accurate? how do you know you could have gotten some numbers mixed up? I mean, you sure weren't there when these things lived.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 06:29 PM
    I believe I said that several post ago, when I said that it seems like some people would think that christians were the only ones who believed in creation, when that's not true. I also stated that I respected people's religious beliefs, whether they thought there was reincarnation, "heaven" or nothing at all.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 06:31 PM
    I was responding to the statement about my knowing of the existence of other religions, not polly.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 08:18 PM
    Sigh, The issue at hand here is not choice between science and religion, it creationism versus evolution. But to address your point, people who believe in evolution often times choose not to be christians because it is ridiculous when you have seen the evidence and have not excused it irrationally. People who claim to be christians and believe in evolution are ridiculous, they are stuck with these ingrained beliefs so they try to combine the two. Believing in god, and jesus, is fine, but claiming to be christian and believe in evolution is just frivolous.

    Pollscrew he didn't say carbon dating. Carbon dating can only be used to date something that is not much older than 50,000 years link]">link . It also must get its carbon from the air. It was probably soil dating. There are different techniques for finding the age of something. You weren't alive when these things lived? What a stupid argument.

    a theory is something that has not been proven, but is widely belived
    Theory(dictionary.com)
    A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 08:22 PM
    That was just me, your fucking login at the top of the page says it works but doesn't. Fucking annoying. IE 6, win2000 machine. Wish I could go back and fix it so it says it was me. Ricky, do you keep IP logs?
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 14, 2002 at 09:22 PM
    You know, you don't have to call me ridiculous. I believe what I believe. I think both can exist. Evolution and creationism is the same argument as science and religion. I understand if you disagree, I respect your thoughts, but you don't have to insult my intelligence by calling mine ridiculous.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 15, 2002 at 02:20 PM
    You can be a christian and believe in evolution. What I meant, but didn't explain it right, was that you cannot really believe in evolution and the creationism you find in the average christian bible because it is not compatible. At least if you, like many a christian, are taking it literally. What is 7 days to God? Could have been billions of years. But when you take the bible literally and believe in it along with evolutionism it is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I mean no insult though.
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 15, 2002 at 08:55 PM
    I can see what you mean.
    khoury's Avatar .
    khoury spoke on Oct 15, 2002 at 10:05 PM
    Cool.
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 15, 2002 at 11:23 PM
    i made this statement before, God did not make the earth in billions of years, but 7 days. Wait now, let me fix that. God made the earth in 1 day. Plants another day, birds, mammals, fish, and all those other things, seprate days. 6 days of work, and he rested on the 7th day. The word actualy used in the old Bible was a word that meant 24 hours. I really need to learnnot to come back anymore. I always say i'm gonna leave this argument, but I never do. oh well.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 16, 2002 at 04:28 AM
    SPAZZA IS WITHOUT DOUBT THE SINGLE MOST GEEKIEST MAN EVER TO TAP ON A PC
    pollscrewer's Avatar .
    pollscrewer spoke on Oct 16, 2002 at 11:28 AM
    what does that have to do with anything?
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 16, 2002 at 04:36 PM
    HE MADE BEER!!! MMMMM!
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Oct 17, 2002 at 08:10 PM
    I will pay 250 000 dollars to anyone who can factually prove that god exsists.

    -Tom
    ravinjunkie's Avatar .
    ravinjunkie spoke on Oct 18, 2002 at 11:36 AM
    The subject with believing in God is that it is up to you whether you want to believe in God.

    Its not that simple; watch this magic trick; GOD MAKE WATER ICE! ZAP!

    Now, you could jump down my throat and say SEE HE DOESNT!
    but that's not the point . you can't really see any scientific proof.
    Well, actually you could but chances of you being skeptical or cynical about the discovery would probably be high.

    Now, if you truly truly want to find out. You could go on a quest FOR YEARS!!!
    Maybe achieve your moksha or nirvana e.t.c This can be done by exploring all different religions and pratices.

    However, incidentally I came across an article which suggest that when you achieve moksha, nirvana that it is all images and feelings made up of the brain. I'll try to get it scanned.
    ravinjunkie's Avatar .
    ravinjunkie spoke on Oct 18, 2002 at 11:44 AM
    "I also totally believe that. BUT LET ME TELL YOU...Not all religions are theologist. Buddhism isn't, infact it's in keeping with western science, more so than any other religion. Daydream, please try to remember-Christianity isnt the only religion."

    THAT IS TRUE!!!!!!!
    because of ignorance of religion; WHY IS THERE SO MUCH WAR? im just screaming thoughts out loud. doesn't need to be answered
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 18, 2002 at 08:10 PM
    I know you said it doesn't need to be answered, BUT.......

    I will say again since you used a quote that has my name in it....

    THAT I SATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT CHRISTIANITY WASN'T THE ONLY RELIGION annnnddddd THAT I RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS. DAMN IT!
    everyonelovesaspanking's Avatar .
    everyonelovesaspanking spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 04:27 PM
    JESUS CAN LICK MY BALLS DRY OF ALL EVIL......evolution is real anyone do doesnt think so just because of their religion needs to grow up... Now for the sake of peace on earth...grow the fuck up!
    daydreamtime's Avatar .
    daydreamtime spoke on Oct 19, 2002 at 06:23 PM
    Speaking of growing up, that was the inmature freaking comment .
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Nov 26, 2002 at 04:44 AM
    errors in the bible.

    [link]
    randomaction's Avatar .
    randomaction spoke on Dec 24, 2002 at 06:08 PM
    colege evoloution simpl walls farther.
    You can't spell too well eh?
    randomaction's Avatar .
    randomaction spoke on Dec 24, 2002 at 06:35 PM
    ..error correction/dectection and empty space.
    It's why skin cancer is so rare.
    randomaction's Avatar .
    randomaction spoke on Dec 24, 2002 at 06:43 PM
    colege what's that then?
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Dec 25, 2002 at 02:46 AM
    DNA contains all the information needed for life. Although they are not all utilised at one time in a cell, or not even used at all, there is absolutely no empty space. Skin cancer usually occurs due to exposure to radiation from the sun; in theory it damages the DNA chain in the skin cells causing it to multiply uncontrollably - some people are more prone due to genetic history and/or skin color. Dont show your ignorance by spewing shit.
    randomaction's Avatar .
    randomaction spoke on Dec 25, 2002 at 09:33 AM
    All the base pairs not used for protein expression, aren't part of a gene. There are around 30,000 genes used to create a human, taking up about 2% of the 30 billion base pairs.

    Here's a question: why is 98% of our DNA not used? Why is it just random noise? One explanation is that having all this empty space between genes reduces the likelihood of damage occurring to them due to radiation.

    I was using empty space rather abstractly to describe the massive parts of DNA not containing genes.
    's Avatar .
    Anonymous Coward spoke on Jan 07, 2003 at 07:37 PM
    the Bible is completely real and the idea that we evolved is incorrect. If u do believe in God then how can you undermine his authority and say he didnt make it all. and if you dont then why not, are you afraid to commit your life to God?
    why not have a friend a comforter an almighty God to turn to. If you dont then your forfiting your life and commiting yourself to be banished to an eternity in hell. this is not a good way to spend an eternity if u have questions talk to someone who knows about
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Jan 07, 2003 at 10:02 PM
    "the Bible is completely real and the idea that we evolved is incorrect"

    Were going to need a little more evidence then that, evolution has enough scientific evidence to be labled as a scientific fact. Therefor, I do not believe in an Omnipotent god; a conclusion I have come to after three years of analyzation of the facts, probabilities, and the history of mankind-the universe, and behaivoral patterns. Creationism is a Christian belief, and Christianity has just as much evidence-if not less- then all of the other world religions, Hinduism, Islam, Ba'ha, Sikhism, Native Belief Systems...etc. Why then, do so many attempt to attatch themsleves and cling to the notion of an absolute [God]?

    "why not have a friend a comforter an almighty God to turn to?"
    Because the truth is, I do not need a comforter or almighty God to turn to, I already have my beliefs, and they hold up to my own very rigourous scrutinization, and the everyday life test. Many would define me as a very spiritual person, and I believe this to be true. I no longer have to BELIEVE, because now I KNOW, and REALISE the truth.

    "If you dont then your forfiting your life and commiting yourself to be banished to an eternity in hell. " This very belief has a lot to do with why I left Christianity, if that sentence is true- then your god is unjust, and I would never want to spend an eternity with him/her; someone who punishes based on belief, not action and will send 5.6 Billion people on this earth to hell because they have different beliefs. If what you say is true, then 66% of the population is doomed to Infinite Punishment for Finite Sins. Is that just?

    To say that your god must exsist because we cannot prove that he does not exsist is hipocritical; for your first commandment states that all other gods or even belief systems are incorrect- can you disprove these gods?

    Infact, I came upon a very informative article, proving that an Omnipotent god is impossible- [link]

    It is very well written and informative; a good read, I highly recommend it.

    It is not my wish to discredit Christianity, rather to open your eyes to the hipocrisy of what you have befallen. The only truth is toleration- of all religions and belief systems. The religion that I have chosen: Buddhism. Thus, I do not discredit any other belief systems. I have faith in tolerance- only in tolerance is truth. Until that is realised by many others, I do not wish to follow a belief system that says that Ghandi was, and the Dalai Lama and other such people are doomed to hell despite their actions. Follow your religion avidly, but if a certain rule or teaching causes more harm then good, why would you continue with that teaching?

    -Thomas
    JC4EVR's Avatar .
    JC4EVR spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 01:09 PM
    Dont believe there lies,those who claim that EVILutionis the answer are in direct league with Satan. Only God himself could have created such a beautiful world as ours and only satan would try to corrupt us by using tools like "science" to lure us away from our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    DONT BELIVE THE LIES! CALL YOUR CHILDS SCHOOL NOW AND TELL THEM TO GET THESE EVIL TEXTBOOKS OUT OF YOUR CHILDS SCHOOL FOR THE SAKE OF THERE SOULS!
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 01:47 PM
    Im not even going to bother...
    Tekiran's Avatar .
    Tekiran spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 02:50 PM
    ... I believe firmly in the bible. Ironically enough, i've recently been searching for scientific proof that creation is what truly happened. I've actually found a good deal of resources. I also looked on the other end of the spectrum and read up on some sites that attempt to disprove the bible. I admit, the arguments seemed pretty firm and waterproof... yet several of them were just allegations. One of my personal favorites was some research done by physicist Robert Gentry.

    Granite is hard, strong, and solid without cracks or seams. Granite cannot be created by scientists. It is considered to be an "original" material of Earth. When melted and allowed to resolidify, it's crystal structure becomes much smaller and changes into a different rock, "rhyolite". Granite also never contains fossils like many sedimentary rocks.

    Polonium 218 is an element that is a radioactive isotope, meaning it is "unstable" and continually emits alpha, beta, and gamma particles until it decays into a smaller atom and eventually into lead. Polonium 218 takes only 3 minutes until half of it has changed into a lighter element. This is known as it's "half-life". Polonium 218 can also be created from larger radioactive isotopes, such as Uranium 238. Uranium 238, just like Polonium 218, decays into smaller atoms until it becomes lead.

    Gentry found Polonium 218 halos (or spheres of damaged material surrounding the decaying atom) in granite rock. What does this mean? Well... in order for the halos to be preserved, the granite had to be in a solid state. Yet, Polonium 218 only has a 3 minute half-life. That rules out the Polonium 218 being in the granite while it was still in liquid form and staying there until it solidified. That supposedly takes many years. The Polonium 218 couldn't have happened to fall into a crack or seam of the granite. I mentioned before, granite has no cracks or seams. The Polonium couldn't have come from it's parent isotope, Uranium 238 because there were no other halos found in the granite. The only explanation is that at one moment, there was no granite, and then at the next moment, there suddenly was granite with the Polonium 218 already locked inside. This is commonly referred to as "Creation Fingerprints". Think what you may.

    I'm very eager to hear any arguments against this. I enjoy apologetics.

    If you'd like some resources pertaining to this material, feel free to search "Polonium 218" on Yahoo! or Google.
    SurrealStatic's Avatar .
    SurrealStatic spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 03:21 PM
    You have singlehandedly insulted the very nature of what it is to be Christian. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself. To breed this kind of ignorance shows the extent to which ignorance itself lives in you. No one is trying to lure anyone away for religion, it is the religious bigots, who are so closed minded they cannot rationalize even the most basic of opposing ideas, who are luring those away from knowledge. You would have screamed the world was flat during the time of Galileo. You would have thrown stones during the inquisition. You would burn books, books of which you do not fully understand, and because of this burn them out of fear. You are a disgrace.
    JC4EVR's Avatar .
    JC4EVR spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 03:27 PM
    all I know is that when the time comes for the coming of Christ, I will be ascending to the kingodm of GOD!!! while the rest of you are forced to toil here, begging to be let into eternal paradise.

    Ther are many among you who cluck there tongues and claim to be True Believers but God knows the truth and he will judge you appropriaetly
    Leptictitious's Avatar .
    Leptictitious spoke on Jan 30, 2003 at 09:33 PM
    1.I'm more worried about the judgment day of Islam, or Hinduism, or Wiccan.

    2.Alot of this Christian Progaganda is merely trying to scare people into believing in an impossible god.

    3. When your judgment day comes around, or if I'm sent into the fires of hell, I'll meditate, and achieve enlightenment. And if I'm not in the mood, I'll debate Jesus, and even his only dad, Joseph, about the exsistence of god.

    Mr. Christian Fundamentalist, I don't have to BELIEVE in anything, I KNOW the truth.

    Plus, as I've said before, I refuse to follow any religion that says that Ghandi and the Dalai Lama were/are doomed to hell.
    -Tom
    IndigoShaper's Avatar .